Re: [dmarc-ietf] Recipient domain in aggregate reports (#23)

Matthäus Wander <mail@wander.science> Sat, 08 May 2021 12:29 UTC

Return-Path: <mail@wander.science>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1AC3A126E for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 May 2021 05:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=wander.science
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M4mAiYkWXXfe for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 May 2021 05:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.swznet.de (cathay.swznet.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:13b:2048::113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E4EB3A1267 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 8 May 2021 05:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wander.science; s=cathay; h=Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Sender:Reply-To: Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WfFqAkOfQpowQEbSAWKUKkLnEPp8ElKdOLxE3k8lht4=; b=Z7WTEJuXxN0fF8+v6Gkcwc6x1R WcJDEtWT5CwCB752fhAPue7Ni4rYju1KeS3pVkvWzlGmywluvjmn/bWryOYNUDjPFRul2W3gnvlWz 4DIq2UdaB43RMxUCxeeKqTD84vvIo2ks2roNi6qMia6E734h1UUuQTpfQBeKEJ0fiHKt3qxEzcKo5 4Y3yF8f3Xv3CNooTMBAVIWGzcCnc7MezjApp5YifKl8u5YotdZYeUMgFIRvWgMMGHdMv+ca0DfcuP XduSxqrPDq8gcXSFv2J1/npoBc0UoLLywEj3HAPEWGkLSDY3K1mJGb6vl8sZeF7sItNSknHwd/H2W ghpNDbaQ==;
Received: from dynamic-2a01-0c23-7488-1000-bdb5-5afc-feab-56ea.c23.pool.telefonica.de ([2a01:c23:7488:1000:bdb5:5afc:feab:56ea]) by mail.swznet.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <mail@wander.science>) id 1lfM52-0004Sp-CJ for dmarc@ietf.org; Sat, 08 May 2021 14:29:12 +0200
To: dmarc@ietf.org
References: <20210502203007.2AE156284F0@ary.qy> <215690a6-2b04-3355-9999-816a1c3d7126@heeg.de> <70E22447-47F6-4B92-B47F-664A81107836@wordtothewise.com> <CAH48Zfy0_jvDAtwQ+MrK4kk=J1iqO=6z1+ToBPiAOYeJ5qWHyg@mail.gmail.com> <692CBE21-4222-4353-8D03-EE4B287405EF@wordtothewise.com> <CAH48ZfzH24kw9Rn8t_r-WmsBVQKcrNnV9Px0Gr7ufJcSncmUuQ@mail.gmail.com> <e9b5abbc-08b3-111a-9563-37a742c72ff3@tana.it> <MN2PR11MB43519672C6029A3FE916C0A1F7599@MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CALaySJJa+LWRmhKUxSBXa-Vbx6uf4pzgfQZ0cZ=KUGP3EWhWJw@mail.gmail.com> <4c6e369a-23a0-7816-33fa-41b8151cae54@wander.science> <3931DE91-A04A-4275-BF03-94010D5492CA@wordtothewise.com>
From: Matthäus Wander <mail@wander.science>
Message-ID: <42d9a91b-8bf0-1b49-4560-f371972e2820@wander.science>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 14:29:11 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <3931DE91-A04A-4275-BF03-94010D5492CA@wordtothewise.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:c23:7488:1000:bdb5:5afc:feab:56ea
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mail@wander.science
X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Wed, 08 May 2019 21:11:16 +0000)
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.swznet.de)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/9QbPhNsCde7GZEVoKOYQATLz6WY>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Recipient domain in aggregate reports (#23)
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 12:29:21 -0000

Laura Atkins wrote on 2021-05-08 13:59:
>> What happens to the existing "envelope_to"?
> 
> The proposal objected to was adding a new piece of information to pass
> along information that would allow reconstruction of a forwarding pathway. 
> 
>     Case 1: Identify mail flows along forwarders.

This was not meant as a proposal. It is an explanation of what is
possible with the envelope_to that exists in the spec already:
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7489#page-69>

> The current system does not allow for reconstruction of the forwarding
> pathway.

I agree in that envelope_to makes it easier for reconstruction of the
pathway, but disagree otherwise. DMARC reporting in principle allows for
reconstruction of the pathway, as noted in the privacy considerations:
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dmarc-aggregate-reporting-02#section-6.1>
Other proposals in the current I-Ds contribute to this privacy threat
and may be worth a separate discussion:
- #57 requires reporting of selectors, which can be exploited for tracking.
- #62 makes reporting mandatory, which leaves the mail receiver with no
means to mitigate the privacy threat.

Regards,
Matt