Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd
Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> Sat, 29 February 2020 23:47 UTC
Return-Path: <sklist@kitterman.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B35C3A15F3
for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:47:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001,
URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral
reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)"
header.d=kitterman.com header.b=1mn8BnH+; dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
header.d=kitterman.com header.b=aycc4bjS
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id jtq7F3kvoCgq for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:47:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from interserver.kitterman.com (interserver.kitterman.com
[64.20.48.66])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32D3D3A15EA
for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:47:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from interserver.kitterman.com (interserver.kitterman.com
[IPv6:2604:a00:6:1039:225:90ff:feaa:b169])
by interserver.kitterman.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46E73F802C0
for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:47:03 -0500 (EST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com;
i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201903e; t=1583020023; h=from : to :
subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version
: content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from;
bh=pazNeS9cVELQWZgoWCL+xHEHYcJk/6SE0agL/PfOjVk=;
b=1mn8BnH+QzCkrDxXkS5rfM4hZ21sbWDOjkcFOTThlgEPXYKiabuzC53IA7dZGdZMJFewY
5y1pcJ1CM9I2AxvAg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com;
i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201903r; t=1583020023; h=from : to :
subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version
: content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from;
bh=pazNeS9cVELQWZgoWCL+xHEHYcJk/6SE0agL/PfOjVk=;
b=aycc4bjSjmsjC4WwUL2nc4dw6RwzFrBNqisCMiwhbuCHBIKcqjxFEecv6VKEwaCywtJg6
zJTBTBVirGaT2JBJtVE7OvEUJWKKOYGSYO08IqsvUbq2ieflqdHL6W+6/T+PIEI//ZZqgHU
HntkRYvSPhsH4tT7JkU98HQeuazFyafUxUIE0vsbHKaEVbWQowo+Rfc+tQ6NzWSCKmainNy
oxjRhnUt66iiClJ6VlGt9QE2FvV4O3qtlyaOpLkJSRxUbD0Vupzt7LF7EglAmXbfYKBZD9b
Y4LuA40+lq2EzuAQs097radgckfNJw73Y8vH1DdWw9o0OEjxW5G5huXv51/w==
Received: from l5580.localnet (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net
[72.81.252.22])
by interserver.kitterman.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C7E0F801F5
for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:47:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:47:02 -0500
Message-ID: <12785741.3Xnv7X5PKb@l5580>
In-Reply-To:
<CAL0qLwZaNS-J5WSAmqh1DcwNKNXFo+9udt_SiUUqWNdVFxCnOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728d7df1-d563-82f4-bfb3-a65a75fdd662@gmail.com>
<CAJ+U=1o4qchsgm9ei3=WuW5qWOPOzdY8ox83rM23b1UZLc=Z0Q@mail.gmail.com>
<CAL0qLwZaNS-J5WSAmqh1DcwNKNXFo+9udt_SiUUqWNdVFxCnOw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Archived-At:
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/C1whpmyZNP3RvBnabvKZG17hXAo>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting,
and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>,
<mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>,
<mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 23:47:06 -0000
On Thursday, February 27, 2020 12:30:59 AM EST Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 3:02 AM Craig Schwartz <craig@ftld.com> wrote: > > First, while I know you've said the needs of external actors won't weigh > > on your decision about moving forward, I would like to mention that > > having a stable reference for PSD DMARC will help us with working towards > > policy changes that would allow us to participate in this experiment. It > > may not be important to the WG Chairs' decision on the draft, but there > > are stakeholders for whom it is important. > > Just to be clear, I don't mean to suggest the restriction you're referring > to is invalid. I'm sympathetic to the idea that some potential > participants in PSD are constrained by policies outside of their control or > ours. But I look at it this way: A series of "X can't happen until Y > happens" assertions have been made over the last while, and the series is > roughly circular. I don't mean to be insensitive to the pain of you or > others under external constraints, yet at the same time, from the > perspective of the IETF, those constraints are very much external and thus > are easier to disqualify as we try (sometimes desperately) to find a way > out of this deadlock we're in. > > I will also be somewhat ashamed to hand Alexey a deadlocked working group > in March. :-) > > With my chair hat on, I'm leaning toward making the following consensus > evaluation: With a completed (and now seven month old) Working Group Last > Call on the PSD document, and as far as I can see no sustained objection, > we should proceed toward publication. Unless someone wants to argue that > this is not the WG's consensus, we'll proceed at the end of next week. > > To be specific: > > Dave raised a post-WGLC concern that DMARC and its use of the PSL really > ought to be teased apart. I have heard no objection to that, and in fact > have seen some support for it, so I consider that also to have consensus. > The part that does not appear to have consensus is that it is mandatory for > this to be done before the PSD work can proceed. > > Dave also suggested that Experimental status is not procedurally > appropriate for this work, and stated some reasons. There appear to be no > others lending support for this assertion either. However, while I > disagree, and I believe I gave an existence proof to the contrary, I will > put this question to the working group: Can we solve this problem by > switching the document to Informational status, and can the working group > accept that outcome? That seems an easy compromise, and I saw it proposed > but not fully discussed yet. This seems quite reasonable as well when one > considers that PSD's proponents could very likely get the thing published > as an RFC via the Independent Stream if they continue to find no progress > here. So, please discuss this option on the list and I'll measure > consensus on it at the end of next week as well when next steps are chosen. > > Mike objected to PSD generally, also long after WGLC completed. This too > does not appear to have swayed consensus. (And he's been cogitating on > that thread for a few weeks now...) > > As a reminder, we still need to do AD evaluation, an IETF-wide last call, > directorate reviews, and IESG evaluation before it lands in the RFC > editor's queue. As editor, I'm happy to update the draft to match whatever the chairs find as consensus. Personally, I think informational is fine. I'll wait for direction from the chairs before doing anything. Scott K Scott K
- [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Chudow, Eric B CIV NSA DSAW (USA)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Ian Levy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Ian Levy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Ian Levy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Ian Levy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Ian Levy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Craig Schwartz
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Andrew Kennedy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Org domaines, not really Comment… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Craig Schwartz
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Chudow, Eric B CIV NSA DSAW (USA)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on DMARCbis, was draft-i… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on DMARCbis, was draft-i… Jane Moneypenny
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on DMARCbis, was draft-i… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on DMARCbis, was draft-i… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on draft-ietf-dmarc-psd Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Comment on DMARCbis, was draft-i… Jane Moneypenny