Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ticket #28 - Failure report mail loops

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Mon, 07 December 2020 19:51 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794973A07B3 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:51:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.451
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=IMLQOO4x; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=fFAIyYk8
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lwLB0OwPhioz for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:51:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DE163A0332 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:51:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 2660 invoked by uid 100); 7 Dec 2020 19:51:13 -0000
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 19:51:12 -0000
Message-ID: <rqm13g$1l9$1@gal.iecc.com>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=a5c.5fce87b1.k2012; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=RTA5cqnRlPwbqDpGeravUlenmVMj+DQEQHCA57qeI+Y=; b=IMLQOO4xHhRduAgj1hqtspRq63cQuuAbJL+iZCAy9GcbvsUhYMD+FoXUFiPIYEFcgvSSdOTV9SxaIcf1O42//a351+s0l4bdeTwk+hx0/q0DSNvSsnoMpfvKz47UTMtHzoO3VOh9cc1nN4a0fIXpgJe2ZXbhNeVtValOMmRRFAnAApcQIndOmQdlrNeqkXgUsmx8jL3sxtdiWmXwif+LUsS74TcTpF7YrpmkGXNWWtObmGhm8Yrm2E+gB2ZDuOvb1Wu2I2QR51pKItDMEiQGHprNnGB/GKdsVadnbhv98f8BGTPz+p9KS3BFVVIxnGLhl4BM2+nzV36JEZUlaSBZjQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=a5c.5fce87b1.k2012; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=RTA5cqnRlPwbqDpGeravUlenmVMj+DQEQHCA57qeI+Y=; b=fFAIyYk8Z2T8zWZ5coGMIPwx2RKniggFqAP28xySFWTeK2cFQOI2VENEWWNm57sFJSXb+ORKJgh75TJWDKV9UaK7dUtgatXKkWYd+pMVmgH7wOw8366qwXiYeV//+4aqmWfd4+8+xz0RUpJARm3V6kPEd+OqegCUGAhiLr67rc8IeZe7Ze0avmeRiM04fMkKHJiyYghwHqWsaC20igOu+dIIY9e3yPQuRjLmL7Ns44xqD43jI7yJMkBC8jOu7g0u9hWq9yf0eCKQBqNCCSnwTHDfD38WcYnNPzwbHYWg1k2MMeCozCx/qdnBtOOviBBeZpbkHT84D2cGlxtHvJKypA==
Organization: Taughannock Networks
References: <0408ae98-e1c1-71fe-fdd4-8bc7a7c151d3@tana.it> <CAL0qLwZXJ+mq1cq0yby05fN9-igt-U+Miht5LHpaYmqM=Omk3w@mail.gmail.com> <faada008-12c3-59f8-49b5-4a71882bc2b1@tana.it>
In-Reply-To: <0408ae98-e1c1-71fe-fdd4-8bc7a7c151d3@tana.it> <CAL0qLwZXJ+mq1cq0yby05fN9-igt-U+Miht5LHpaYmqM=Omk3w@mail.gmail.com> <faada008-12c3-59f8-49b5-4a71882bc2b1@tana.it>
Cleverness: some
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/Izh_1AcYPe8XJqas2I8n8hkzlLU>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Ticket #28 - Failure report mail loops
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 19:51:18 -0000

In article <faada008-12c3-59f8-49b5-4a71882bc2b1@tana.it>,
Alessandro Vesely  <vesely@tana.it> wrote:
>> 4.  Some explicit loop prevention specification may be added.  For example:
>>> 4.1.  send reports from a subdomain having a DMARC record without ruf=, or
>>> 4.2.  never send failure reports about failed reports.
>> 
>> The latter, which is consistent with SMTP never generating a bounce about a
>> bounce.
>
>However, SMTP has an operational definition of bounce, MAIL FROM:<>.  Should we 
>take the same stance?  That is, send failure reports with an empty bounce 
>address and never send failure reports to bounces or failure reports?

We're talking about DMARC failures, not SMTP delivery failures. I
don't see what the latter has to do with the former.

R's,
John
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly