Re: [dmarc-ietf] Response to a claim in draft-crocker-dmarc-author-00 security considerations

Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com> Sat, 18 July 2020 20:11 UTC

Return-Path: <dcrocker@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10863A0CFC for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7qLXjIhJbsmP for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB0393A0CFB for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id a21so9347003otq.8 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=oJXn7Ym8CifI64qgBanKLPJ9fukJ8VSYhJlBgRMlgzs=; b=o4doFqx2VJiezk71QJZYVw85BKAi41VYyhOsuhJ6Rsw2nqgpbYQgUFRa2Odsi/nirk FDYNlgSpa+uFgvvJXGhzacpzuj9l+hwJR0aBdrEM7GwWmHszhovoEwj1K08qsXax5CT5 VvuFLRPlxK1s5x1GTh4NEhpxtWRaIodUThN1ZxklfzCBxOCdiXYrlLwW7su64KuWkiLO ZVUYMMhgfcKkZ1BL4ZnaenaiqgffzmrTxcQFCUR11u+fyFYbt/BLB8VblekfIRx7cnkW XcUfqJvslVF1hksIcUPIk2NmYX1p59HbmnUCrALwE4AszBYm73pPJzTFc2qhM+2ALYC6 TlbA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=oJXn7Ym8CifI64qgBanKLPJ9fukJ8VSYhJlBgRMlgzs=; b=oxt9YolGKX74n0tphTE0wFGoSoqhZ/h7uYcAiuEkLO1E5KBZQk1ihi4hPVBjoPQPET r/IXexh7Pw5KCCrGHqEZsfZCAZePItNRFC+YUZzXFXcPAJpi6wJLM7/y3HYnOkiqrl0j 0zlypSJ923rOegdXjc7EEX0zo+sjdhDVFSG0QFWQUx0OegKBXHWEB0ZPj/KBaXjjyM53 OBpSsEJgvP2MsPRDu3Pcf8CwtnNJn+/cnDwjPXq2Mjmtr0F382STWRV4uo3MGGzqy0iw EWJV0Ryj403Nq/OK16tzlv/YCXVoH7Io2Pn5/IoeUw/mrwno4tDn02hm5rGUk+yUW/OJ Sv+w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VUzCGOm30OMeq+nZ3ZzToswU7nQoze6rBy/8e3cS8ofaq6ykV PxkzaV7CBjuWWON1riP1tNDqNYaTOVs=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZ1GIWyCZ3uRlGflMPfiIpLy5xxl1PJ7xHHG70u6trchFTNDfIReOMD4URokJdtGXUE6rdfA==
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:4b90:: with SMTP id k16mr13483038otf.69.1595103113796; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1700:a3a0:4c80:e11f:3900:91ad:f362? ([2600:1700:a3a0:4c80:e11f:3900:91ad:f362]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o8sm2658167otj.29.2020.07.18.13.11.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dave Crocker on behalf of Kurt Andersen <johnl@taugh.com>, dmarc@ietf.org
References: <20200717210053.674D61D2C431@ary.qy>
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a905e269-fa1a-9eff-1cc7-bc8a27c122e5@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:11:51 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20200717210053.674D61D2C431@ary.qy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/M2q8-DwgDDOPnAwjJttrf1I1rkY>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Response to a claim in draft-crocker-dmarc-author-00 security considerations
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:11:56 -0000

On 7/17/2020 2:00 PM, Dave Crocker on behalf of Kurt Andersen wrote:
> Do we have any recent numbers on how many users see the From address rather
> than or in addition to the display name?

Thereby making clear that this is a spoofed message, since I wouldn't 
ask a question like that, potentially distracting from the substance of 
the topic.  Beyond, none vs. some vs. all, the numbers shouldn't matter.

There is ample evidence that trust markers presented to end users do not 
produce adequately differential (and useful) decision-making about 
whether a message is trustworthy.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net