Re: [dmarc-ietf] yet more From rewriting,

Brandon Long <> Tue, 23 September 2014 21:58 UTC

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:58:38 -0700
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From: Brandon Long <>
To: Steven M Jones <>
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Cc: "" <>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] yet more From rewriting,
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On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Steven M Jones <> wrote:

> On 09/23/2014 10:26 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> >  On 09/22/2014 03:17 PM, Josh Aberant wrote:
> >
> >  > > alias. Google Groups (takes ownership of the From per our
> >  > > #RejectPolicy) and then
> >
> > I don't understand "our #RejectPolicy".  What are you talking about?
> > Surely not DMARC?  That reject policy would be related to the From
> > Domain of the user, not anything about Twitter.
> My reading was that this was some kind of configuration item within
> Google Groups. Therefore it's interesting if it is a normally available
> feature that any Google Group might use to alter the RFC5322.From or add
> an X-Original-From: header.

Google Apps currently implements "aliases" as Google Groups (this has been
true for a number of years now, prior to that there were separate aliases
and groups).  Because of this, a "" address that
redirects to internal users or an external CRM tool (salesforce) would be
getting a groups rewritten message.  These messages will not pass DKIM due
to the rewriting, and so if they're from a DMARC p=REJECT/QUARANTINE domain
such as, the from header will be rewritten to be the group name ( and the x-original-from will be the original sender.

Its technically possible with Google Apps domain routing rules to reroute to another address without passing through Groups and
therefore DKIM would still pass... obviously SPF wouldn't, however.  Doing
this for a number of addresses would probably be more complicated than
using Groups as the alias.

Currently, Groups rewrites messages even if the group has no footer or
subject prefix.  We're investigating having an "alias" like mode for Groups
which would allow DKIM messages to pass unscathed.

In any case, support folks, especially when dealing with paying customers,
tend to want to get all of the email, they don't want their nicely paying
customers to not get support just because of spam false positives or the
mail routing breaking dkim.

I'm not sure if any of this is particularly relevant except to say that if
one does from header rewriting, it is generally useful for there to be a
machine readable and potentially standard place to find the original
sender.  That said, I also agree that displaying that address directly to
the end user, especially without verification through some mechanism like
OAR, would defeat the purpose of DMARC in the first place.  If we knew how
to display from addresses to users without making them phishing targets, we
wouldn't have needed DMARC.