Re: [dmarc-ietf] ARC vs reject

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Mon, 07 December 2020 18:39 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F103A00F7 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:39:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.651
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6VkuIqbZdDZI for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:39:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com (mail-pj1-x1030.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D21663A00D9 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:39:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id v1so106741pjr.2 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:39:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4gGhr9nvUG9nsAS4CJ6/eUHhtBOzxbudBsJRV52QjEs=; b=GQS6irUjAb5z2aE6azr8JV4OBEhzMlI1tQNBC4tNTg4NAA2mWPztMgorFb1Pml55dI gnL7PX5GEvZsUE/2gYBRw4mHM/A7fDyZwHn6vqkboeHmm8ZTDP2vRLYcJQxMgr6B4Ki3 9Faozttgo6/Q56TPzaCDwLUHppj7WK6SXhBvjZjCCPqvXeSfxNOA6yG71nRRHSuNeWNi tBzq/WdHZdeLrNNJE2G6o6wIp7LiIoxTgPIDuFFtu0GJ/kgh5G0mlBJi8T2lDgexyME+ GcwMxVoj0hHDoiaR3PJnZ3CzVBUXYM+Qju0R5ExxSRoLn1lySzRIxJKVIU+jmyBk8MZj J/Cg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4gGhr9nvUG9nsAS4CJ6/eUHhtBOzxbudBsJRV52QjEs=; b=TEzJ+HrAP2U64pflZnHlNdyBVO6LNUTY4hVIzQ1SqbOYVe5AM8vD2n9XfqiXKg1P+z y5ADMiaQyzOpPaKTzBY1njXEVHDtr2K6QtF/iTxKAU+b2W9vjBA28vl/OA8PVY/V/BU4 WJU5wyJABvjb5DVt9nO6S1w76A3VmtONIlpwzfqjedKDDLNRmw0Bs46GCw3MvL392EX0 jPMFMKmCda/gxTuJfDQhwlrslUEs41PvM/bIFZSnhTuaIJ+IT6JgXD4eV6H+wxyOpJe3 ghOmdyn9OM8+y5gS7xogCl5n6IbDHMAk35aJyX8UYKgtpBapCYSSao3aSEUUcDjiIV1F leZg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530qqAWY8tFgHmirePy4WUcIUAO7y8nk3ttGCo0Nc2zVvT8P+4Fc vuV+oVqbn3en2/6WoxU6rFxwl9cpF/jrVQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyXqGSLfKJ51aYdiG85iy/uoLNtnGdDo8AV4AmrJJdaBpK5WERg+9wVmaVm7C2Lif8JOEgqQA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:9d88:: with SMTP id k8mr121777pjp.141.1607366371586; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:39:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-41-154.volcanocom.com. [107.182.41.154]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 21sm7010317pfx.84.2020.12.07.10.39.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:39:30 -0800 (PST)
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>, Dotzero <dotzero@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF DMARC WG <dmarc@ietf.org>
References: <20201205210351.DB78E2904420@ary.qy> <28759E60-3A00-4D25-9490-34495B96EE10@bluepopcorn.net> <9c23d850-4164-1320-1c25-40554c1f64b@taugh.com> <A7E1018B-F6B1-46F3-8FEF-69FDC744DA4A@bluepopcorn.net> <d8dc2644-cbcf-d3a1-c5fb-46fdf5bec819@taugh.com> <CAH48ZfxWWxSh3j3YnA4eD4Y5Ep4GfVDr22WX1MCM4-tcVK0UpQ@mail.gmail.com> <b5774a04-fbee-8d23-d760-0380d58a9fb7@mtcc.com> <CAL0qLwZ+KFrPzScr6c-tMOd2nCV=v1Mf71h0fWBUV9_ZZ-k6Cw@mail.gmail.com> <be9ddc32-8709-0990-c663-5c625efd6b1f@mtcc.com> <CAL0qLwYNzkt7afY4ssRKtgpfBSQXxcyuNTQ++7QkUaO0GA9=Kw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ4XoYdmquQBdJ246Y_ca2tpqbYS680A6tKExXX1UzGStJYenA@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwYLvtvmhWW8gBkHUBhV5F1NXZyaFMm-aTh_dQKdOAo0sg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <bfa3e98f-599b-d15f-7424-7e0991186bfc@mtcc.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:39:29 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAL0qLwYLvtvmhWW8gBkHUBhV5F1NXZyaFMm-aTh_dQKdOAo0sg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------18770DA7B10768865AA80786"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/S_anOjz_qPGNE34XhFnGPXeuPFA>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] ARC vs reject
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 18:39:34 -0000

On 12/7/20 10:32 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 4:05 AM Dotzero <dotzero@gmail.com 
> <mailto:dotzero@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I've asked here and in other places that validators/receivers
>     consuming ARC headers provide data regarding the results of such
>     consumption. To date we have not seen any data provided by
>     participants in the ARC experiment. It may be that ARC is a useful
>     standard or it may not be. So far I'm seeing a lot of supposition
>     and speculation but no useful data for evaluation.
>
>
> I wonder if we might ask our compatriots at M3AAWG if they might be 
> willing or able to undertake a data collection project in this area.  
> Most of the ARC proponents are also participants there.
>
What I'm particularly curious about is what the difference is with the 
arc auth-res on the filtering decisions. Why would a decision turn on 
that result? That's something I've been trying to understand, but 
haven't managed to get. Naively it seems like it could be useful, but is 
it in reality? Like can somebody show some A-B kind of examples, and 
whether or not they are statistical noise?

Mike