Re: [dmarc-ietf] Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field

Brandon Long <blong@google.com> Fri, 14 August 2020 22:45 UTC

Return-Path: <blong@google.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C42B3A046E for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f4HlbH3PJSkH for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3784E3A043A for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id g19so12278564ioh.8 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ej2MXGdNjIXL5Ahmhpt12bA6zBYw4AZH2QpXJCkLSsM=; b=cM1Io8HfTPcqpbD2AYTAunvL2QmuWAUlChVPxeckpQQTfMQCwMeBST9o3wo4n0NQbZ yMPm0zgZK89/cOBin9LgDMo2dQgC+EJoHhFX0y95J+1pu3xeg29tHfw1ut4dv54L8W4d eGZdz7ROvTj80QwJxlvvKnPvaTEn8MwJlqNvZF6vNdeQa3XpbuKm6ACur426HPk4BUq/ zZTwHbs7iNpxEr6/FaiBnuaOHePl009Jc0wmGI1mrpiymrgVSwcgP8xYwjDnhhMKJ4p1 ZEJzBeLKbDs56/VyUMNeKVUYxusAE4YA3vkkQJRf6MSsMhf2pTSBhrtKBpfMgIztQTVY NBTA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ej2MXGdNjIXL5Ahmhpt12bA6zBYw4AZH2QpXJCkLSsM=; b=EdSa+S+0YnKsIW6uBf0DgL0X7Up9Ka9zvzqEWYkrUs8seR+9dQeG1Dr3ZBkyf5bC4R 53i47qBB61mi/gl1V6Hx747FI5DYTJzeqwyKbLoXgbpG0i5l1bwiAq3QPdQYZKJE6vjh 52ZCwtyZB9F/GZsWO73qphS0Pd88wymyucgGPLWzVKW7GYl5QGLr97qq+Dd54w2qiQAZ +KlPeQq2EWTxW6WKVpPp8486PpM/LIwGTyx+CEAfv/xHMF0lJD7aSOCK1oD8inYUCBfV JuR27QM7Afskxt6l3CbFm1Z2o2EycMO9j5zsmS5vvAtAYktwOFrCmnUsf/FQWPfrcD3w /htQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531d4IQ3Eq7U4yWDj9JqY3fnwCEc3HEseGBK5a5t8IvuAsRzVsDc qKWIRVrqqrx0Xnl2t48eyTUgFdjAWxOHft6ldTSg
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz4d73lYhRNRefc1ALErplLBYXwbs5aAr4A/S75pcZfWvi1PdkIZElGc43fjUdbOrlajxlclq/tVu/kKw7ayQ0=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:25d3:: with SMTP id u19mr4556897jat.103.1597445111260; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CADyWQ+H4D9+ELpsjxggEWwzg+WwUZs9mXzy8iNnLZCTfGORACA@mail.gmail.com> <745030ea-c2e6-16a4-690f-bbb639b9b8b8@bluepopcorn.net>
In-Reply-To: <745030ea-c2e6-16a4-690f-bbb639b9b8b8@bluepopcorn.net>
From: Brandon Long <blong@google.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:44:59 -0700
Message-ID: <CABa8R6s0Qq93kQAH9_gw51ngW53PFUt4opzbGvyEXMg1Ja3xvg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>
Cc: Tim Wicinski <tjw.ietf@gmail.com>, IETF DMARC WG <dmarc@ietf.org>, dmarc-chairs@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006839af05acde2c0e"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/WzPsSW1-aw2QzH6TTfjp3E_LdAA>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:45:14 -0000

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:09 PM Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net> wrote:

> On 8/10/20 12:04 PM, Tim Wicinski wrote:
>
>
> During IETF 108, the chairs realized that there was interest in Dave's
> RFC5322.Sender draft.
>
> This starts a Call for Adoption for draft-crocker-dmarc-sender
>
> I do not support adoption of this draft as a working group document for
> different reasons than I have seen expressed by others on the list.
>
> If the Sender header field is to be used by DMARC in the manner described
> in this draft, it should be an integral part of the DMARCbis specification
> rather than a separate extension to it. In other words, this should be an
> issue on the DMARC WG issue tracker rather than a working group draft (and
> presumably eventual RFC). There are enough different combinations of
> originators and receivers that might use Sender (which the chart in Section
> 2 begins to describe) that we don't need the ongoing ambiguity of whether
> the receiver does or does not implement this as an extension.
>

+1

If DMARC wasn't experimental, maybe I could see adding it separately, but
this seems like a fairly fundamental change and shouldn't just be a
bolt-on... especially since as written this appears to undermine the
existing DMARC.. ie if DMARC is "apply this policy to these messages" and
this addition says "nah, don't apply them to some of those messages".

Brandon