Re: [dmarc-ietf] Consensus Sought - Ticket #47 (Removal of "pct" tag) - With Interim Notes

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Thu, 03 June 2021 22:17 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052D93A1C9B for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.851
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=znGeP5v9; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=VlNoWWF5
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GHiisKwcZCS1 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 838703A1C99 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 31332 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2021 22:17:38 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=7a61.60b95502.k2106; bh=oOn0mbDSYlQePfsLnoe/hW378mY7BoKFk18xyI9PD1s=; b=znGeP5v9WxYeiwz0uVswnBKG5RMFCEKT2tKI1puCQVdN/wtvICk9kFTaBf5YPNAyIHdr2g0o1vHzVWFsd5s5r6eqvVqzs6XqJY/ki4D4oTFhiBghe92EYKCXMSFY0yoABWIHGw8HBiLt/CBL65UX0tpcv5Guj8ysPf2XFvjHT8LcfIlwgYMHf7l9kQviDbtmVJeuRNsspFILG6bm+v1fRyTBqPr+/9m4NUKz34U2hgCBpVxQjQ/vanJTOIMyGzQC9y6O9FYPdJFZFZogCm3B2fKER+iKTzUzJ39tvsr90ch/pTkoNhHwsCxBeC+0QHWpYa0fNtiiuTp/HOd5hdJzhw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=7a61.60b95502.k2106; bh=oOn0mbDSYlQePfsLnoe/hW378mY7BoKFk18xyI9PD1s=; b=VlNoWWF5+seB1Vjcu9fCvPXIeBF46pikWLJwlVIsYydJSgSei+t/n/JbRVvUFBIMaRUoWMhT94ipXFoxhVlfNMLJ/DRSyTfRsNnlSvR4nuNLrqh06yVe11sc2jX0oWQMoVjhe9Yu6+VTHAPS5Ish4lYZD8vcv87Z/2EN0vmMJj22nJ89C2rjIEYYgrjUDKCYlVk/g+YaOH5SF53gWg2CVbW5z3aMZUoqnQ65ItZTbcYj1aLLlcHCTNeBELruRsQNe0U7zhVitdOf50xnIhCohD7mmvxdkDaeYbNpEJvB9RNmKGKDv2rqxVpTVwS90oVhJvV0l8dTJbLPUTeLNcYfxA==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 03 Jun 2021 22:17:38 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id C8146B6B7BB; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 18:17:36 -0400 (EDT)
Date: 3 Jun 2021 18:17:36 -0400
Message-Id: <20210603221737.C8146B6B7BB@ary.qy>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Cc: vesely@tana.it
In-Reply-To: <e6403b99-dcc2-1507-4187-a7586c9f5eea@tana.it>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Cleverness: minimal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/YJ_4NloeMaU0PVbj87Ub80nQuuE>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Consensus Sought - Ticket #47 (Removal of "pct" tag) - With Interim Notes
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 22:17:47 -0000

It appears that Alessandro Vesely  <vesely@tana.it> said:
>On Thu 03/Jun/2021 05:45:33 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>> I don't understand what "demeaning a domain's policy" means.
>
>I meant to say that p=quarantine; pct=0 is to be considered a strict policy to 
>all effects.  Saying so should prevent reasoning something like "Oh, they said 
>quarantine, but since pct=0 it is somewhat faked, so I'll skip X", where X 
>could be rewriting From:, displaying a BIMI image, record aggregate data, or 
>any other action that might depend on the policy.  That is to say pct=0 does 
>not alter the value of p=, otherwise testing becomes a nightmare.

If we agree that's what we mean, that's what we should say, e.g., add something
like this:

 Senders may use pct=0 to signal an intention to apply a stricter
 DMARC policy in the future, and to request receivers that do special
 processing based on DMARC policy to do that processing. Examples of
 special processing might include mailing list software rewriting
 addresses in From headers.