Re: [dmarc-ietf] Are Evaluators motivated to switch to Tree Walk?

Douglas Foster <dougfoster.emailstandards@gmail.com> Tue, 21 June 2022 11:02 UTC

Return-Path: <dougfoster.emailstandards@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA63C1345E2 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 04:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1QF3rlXJW8ND for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 04:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oa1-x32.google.com (mail-oa1-x32.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCF21C1345F1 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 04:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oa1-x32.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-fb6b4da1dfso17893330fac.4 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 04:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2MNgGzfC3DjGlF6N06O1YQ1bA/pYMSwwZvTEGQHRrIE=; b=SM3RR6YgLHGSWeP7hl2x9SXKDqZdaxDLsjqhh9MzvZNPYea1AGQyA6+QnogmFlEtRa xjUDwnnSMNp7YIciGOmvH6x7g6lr1JxB79kkRjd7ztSwxk7AW8nKNQgg+C7+AHzfQxtV YZ9QTGi1LHqQbO9dccb1f/Db91isljQ6r+meTnPK7ktH+DyzxW0aHT9KT9HjtI/fv8G5 BV8aHbQrsYXpELdDLzifGce/n1FFNqqGuV4d5V+uNFIXLWzcMiX4gPZhZWUsW3mfLseK QGtu4BtiqpcrEBS6P7yl56R0YxAwbxEzr7qi4RqbSpUiJnr3RYOPZoBoew9ukWvjhP44 Ty6g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2MNgGzfC3DjGlF6N06O1YQ1bA/pYMSwwZvTEGQHRrIE=; b=sxPsBkW1eQ1IJjzUTeiACY+N/p4EsgXXig+GOPoGyS7dqCv4q0dZIfzcssbpID5KV5 sl3DmUA2ZVSIEx+yMzO1nPn9W+qMgXefsa9K5Iur9QLgdBLsC7Go+fyHCICUsE4ltjN3 eQ4YAjhmVkW23sJciC0KYjzDouqW7keICwWnpwBMkDxQrFNjkTOSahJO3uB0ebOH99yo qr66IzTOMyC/8M3NKGZwdY6oGNIfOcPQNbHXJTkB1HUoiy2LoKBxPFgMLCnKwaYJofgq D91Y71giQG8AGkkJh6DrvZoBNVk/AHa/slpoUkL7BwcuPSYS13V8DXUElmkuWnxC8lGF wCEw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9HBV+JP12tTrvuYh9FXfWvzHnLwBoAmnnpP/hsYdkC/NnfcJ7c OHbpjip4ytbTJu4ePjs4VFnY3dWdoeRfXbF8ZPp7Oy/P
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uFnM4uFq+jnDfC0eOn8vckIeuk3/jUxRZcdFni8zvcLCwDI7QimdRYuD6K3EtV3e/PckA4imhTgigHJl+nwSU=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:e2d4:b0:101:be60:fdd1 with SMTP id w20-20020a056870e2d400b00101be60fdd1mr9650855oad.51.1655809344744; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 04:02:24 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAL0qLwa0fGJRGXaueKERwM_bfSBjwB4dG8=-iTTWQ6trPohuxQ@mail.gmail.com> <20220618181008.3D0E243C75B5@ary.qy> <CAL0qLwZ_8MsD-t3-25yzYDJsd3vVKHocZb+nwhrqKNpO7KutLA@mail.gmail.com> <8521df13-652d-c30f-3fac-75630c3fedbd@taugh.com> <eb41921d-2631-c46e-8f27-fd6b38ec20d9@tana.it>
In-Reply-To: <eb41921d-2631-c46e-8f27-fd6b38ec20d9@tana.it>
From: Douglas Foster <dougfoster.emailstandards@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 07:02:12 -0400
Message-ID: <CAH48ZfyVEEv51GLtVJ6noyJQtaDggnf9t8FR_g=vW-xTCeTCEA@mail.gmail.com>
To: IETF DMARC WG <dmarc@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cf31dd05e1f32785"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/cKsskdP3gP3CDvsxP1hQpdZRcm0>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Are Evaluators motivated to switch to Tree Walk?
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 11:02:27 -0000

Before we move to coding the similarities, differences, and risks into the
document, it would be useful just to generate a complete list within this
WG.

It would certainly be a breach of trust to omit information from the
document, if done for the purpose of hiding tree walk limitations.

Doug

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:13 AM Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> wrote:

> On Sun 19/Jun/2022 18:08:57 +0200 John R Levine wrote:
> >>> That seems like a pessimal way to make things interoperate: use one of
> >>> an unknown set of algorithms ...
> >>
> >> Given that we're already working in an environment where it's unlikely
> that
> >> everyone's working from a common version of the PSL, I don't think this
> is
> >> such a scary idea.
> >
> > But one of the points of the tree walk is that for the first time it
> gives us a
> > well-defined algorithm that everyone can use to get the same answer.
>
>
> Getting the right answer is essential, of course.  However, DMARC doesn't
> provide for interoperation among different evaluators.  That everyone gets
> exactly the same answer is not so crucial.
>
>
> > I realize that the PSL works OK, mostly, we think, give or take its
> daily
> > updates and no agreement about whether you use the whole thing or just
> the
> > nominally more official first part.
>
>
> The tree walk is going to be better than the PSL when all the critical
> nodes
> will have been flagged adequately.  Currently, there are uncertain areas
> using
> either algorithm.
>
>
> > I don't see why we would want to make things worse.
>
>
> A simple reason is backward compatibility.  But, from an editorial POV,
> specifying both brings an occasion to highlight their differences and
> analyze
> why one is better than the other under what respects.
>
>
> Best
> Ale
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmarc mailing list
> dmarc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc
>