Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic report loops are a problem
Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com> Tue, 02 February 2021 02:24 UTC
Return-Path: <dcrocker@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA3A3A1692 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:24:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q9i2yKI0wjOj for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com (mail-ot1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB2DF3A168E for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 18:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id i20so18420508otl.7 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:24:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=PlH9pyiFroqY7BbZvCd6rnTyP0IB4TLHiA/Be9ReEPU=; b=EhJ3R9jaPgE0IYZsRXPdW3ofGqPhVCsW8uWD1w19/N26uo2AX5fQAf0vcFMm9kUZId RoHJ2u+MKWm07oNdfdKS63ZAdyoHJy/xggKilbZ2Xsih4Mv24my3WU36BRhVcRVjHhd6 UKhoilQyUsEwTQFs6gYWigbwTTTN76UEjmcQxC2sBoIH9SW2FsguJRGs34HS5Qiei+P9 LRyOxc/uuiN+FaNgXdtkKa+DVCTf/bStop5It7df4e3j9rvAnUQzZVjABa4b4DjXDMaU loofglhgyu3YYDJlpG/9rMoOfn5NfpJA7/vqtsUmXrTQNPMIrW+a2r41H7p0Z7epLDJ4 59+A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=PlH9pyiFroqY7BbZvCd6rnTyP0IB4TLHiA/Be9ReEPU=; b=hiHzP3p/5D/EoZQoyYTPjBVMqzvS2Homx1wzsoni0pTEDj/41/fUeSqKEt/4ghqi/H 2FXPdJGmzoCdiFdECXRv+U98o3Q9Ny6Ru4YW0N0DOKmpsyVVZohf2Z8yk7U5RDPnV82E FocW6ghgNsUfsAvpPoH1HfBgLTCf6spMTMhgFDlf5Ap729x1BYb/8IQ3CjSt6Lb3GO2B vt5g1BEunVCB2P+l8m942atE6WTZlnZQD7dVul1hTqt5lasIYaxGu8BBcKx574LxmnA/ +yPRY5G8hnDZ6Eu8ZvcPKpgzKJl1O2+Z42oF1+epXRFP59293sQ93mtwXPJxMz6WjVGw H2VQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JEJF3tioH04m+KJy5N23KHxbc8OQdV/zS25c3zFoZXbDvxMRm uldq8CzURCdvcXF/EaBQPgT4BGMV1IXxiw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzL6wO/iq84LIBBdwGewSxP+S85YD4X5SqvbFM/SpWBi0lxXUu5YrfL7qg5OlCbW3dvHTZVeg==
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:61d0:: with SMTP id h16mr13303600otk.1.1612232664947; Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:24:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (108-226-162-63.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.226.162.63]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i26sm4467517oov.47.2021.02.01.18.24.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:24:24 -0800 (PST)
To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>, dmarc@ietf.org
References: <20210201232105.1931D6D20971@ary.qy> <41163cd5-be81-6fd7-07dd-7a474874429e@gmail.com> <92b361a1-d9a5-9389-46b-3725d885c02@taugh.com> <b83c7574-3aa9-bd39-1a9b-3be6fa4f47ec@gmail.com> <f28780c0-8533-3a49-d5e3-99fcbbb446ed@mtcc.com> <554d5bd4-8a62-15d2-8f71-aa942c17e654@gmail.com> <18dbfe7b-3f74-69bd-fa54-7f9b1fb66557@mtcc.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1babf085-abd2-fc76-3167-231ef7e9fada@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 18:24:22 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <18dbfe7b-3f74-69bd-fa54-7f9b1fb66557@mtcc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/pY8f7SlyNv-WgRAfVB8MGcoPL0w>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic report loops are a problem
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 02:24:27 -0000
On 2/1/2021 6:13 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: > Because we all know how well unauthenticated data worked out for > email. I fail to see why anybody would be in favor of digesting > unauthenticated data when the method of authenticating it is trivial > and well known. It's an extraordinary claim that needs to be backed > up. But you don't need to convince me; you need to convince the > security AD's and cross area reviewers. DMARC has been deployed for 6 or 7 years. Where is this onerous abuse on reporting that you feel is inevitable? I suspect you've assumed the incentives for sending problematic reports are the same as the incentives for abuse of generic mail, while they are likely quite different. And no, it isn't trivial at all. Setting this stuff up properly takes skill and effort, which means it's expensive. And often is fragile. Hence the need to attend thoughtfully to pragmatics. d/ -- Dave Crocker dcrocker@gmail.com 408.329.0791 Volunteer, Silicon Valley Chapter American Red Cross dave.crocker2@redcross.org
- [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Steven M Jones
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Juri Haberland
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Дилян Палаузов
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops Дилян Палаузов
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are not a … John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are not a … Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are not a … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are not a … John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Juri Haberland
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Steven M Jones
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Steven M Jones
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] report floods, not Forensic repo… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Forensic report loops are a prob… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Michael Thomas
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Seth Blank
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC'ed reports, was Forensic r… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Report bombing is a prolem, Fore… John R Levine