IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [dmarc-ietf] non-mailing list use case for differing header domains

Jesse Thompson <jesse.thompson@wisc.edu> Fri, 31 July 2020 18:11 UTC

Return-Path: <jesse.thompson@wisc.edu>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061FF3A0C27 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:11:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=wisc.edu
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gd2kjvcoWtOC for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wmauth4.doit.wisc.edu (wmauth4.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B9FD3A0C25 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2105.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.105]) by smtpauth4.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190812 64bit (built Aug 12 2019)) with ESMTPS id <0QEC05OFGIIC1820@smtpauth4.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for dmarc@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:11:01 -0500 (CDT)
X-Wisc-Env-From-B64: amVzc2UudGhvbXBzb25Ad2lzYy5lZHU=
X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-4, Version=6.4.7.2805085, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2020.7.31.180017, AntiVirus-Engine: 5.75.0, AntiVirus-Data: 2020.7.23.5750001, SenderIP=[104.47.58.105]
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=GgHPbm+Y4j7L4ug77reKAqop09xtlsN2PHaxyJw+UbeCIErYdWby9rEysESJyu2FUUi7qsMeCnaW+w0JQuGSQOPWfoffN+5EtIQ2ciZbD2sEpkAaiN4+vBdCLhPrrK/Izd75CQvE+L9SRizSyYmqi/JoCT2oKIsWH7yTUqmKrVnhvt+RFPR9HmT1aMsypu4bS2gdc672mQugyfxH5/R2qlAEAXdgt8SQKOXqY7a9V9TaEaCbmrjlQV5WN9R9z6eSNYPhhfY9NHWmqisePnfpY0WYq3K1OCdEp80zVkXuSxs3uVoAfRQI/TnG2r/QVksU5mkeBrCkMWLW6xR3iur6gg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=A5HQkQCiYfRuCsYiB/7TYJBsutcRNqCR9KE+JMXy9YI=; b=f0betLt/ZN3ORnmi3vL76HvQn9dV8l2peWvxtsfpL4kB5RSTHqvw8iymbA4CrqB6PbAjQaLSblF0UJRex3o372M3FkWMkAVbMRh6DDJSW7LX+4/pqw3FJ+B4Ga+/WQSk1qveOGet8BOEZ166MR19wBTjN22nvpzwub/jL7LqIy9tHpSAdwCk3M4SHZfzmoeUzmgVCDAAJ+Jxt60qi7nA7Ihw2ob2L0WIdL8xDXnptIxBqAhCd6xM8npgER6GW7W47hdvt8Dcxbiaf46SdMheLjYRqa4YJBBykMIqmLucLCKaH4ASeLCxaRYXVa0f7OYlN8OJjUMSMDDQrgK9II7KSA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wisc.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=wisc.edu; dkim=pass header.d=wisc.edu; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wisc.edu; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=A5HQkQCiYfRuCsYiB/7TYJBsutcRNqCR9KE+JMXy9YI=; b=pfYUKO2N+ZcTRgYHGWL4tkEiFpfGGEuPpIVsYhGHVO5+8dAVuJn+qhUHt+uB/pZrGAfviAuA4ATBw4f5aJfHrCUtLlIwrrSF4Ab0y8RKhzx7ZElnYWRtJDBX2WpkQ0ILHUJsSaUfBVNv0LjMYMzrldMbXFoPdCRM8wAUx0DwpA8=
Received: from DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:4:7b::16) by DM5PR06MB3259.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:4:3e::39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3216.26; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:11:00 +0000
Received: from DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a92c:9a15:1bb0:4bfa]) by DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a92c:9a15:1bb0:4bfa%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3216.033; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:11:00 +0000
To: dmarc@ietf.org
References: <BY5PR13MB29998094418C8A6C25902569D7730@BY5PR13MB2999.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <c0361cb2-b25b-5d75-cb1f-f9c87e3ecccc@tana.it> <AE9A3A9F-27FC-4935-B8E6-AB0CE1A6D5E2@wordtothewise.com> <d446c074-bbcf-a824-041c-e45958e0b0a2@bluepopcorn.net>
From: Jesse Thompson <jesse.thompson@wisc.edu>
Message-id: <b3dd7a3d-1dca-1ece-94f1-42b1e4a588e3@wisc.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:10:58 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:80.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/80.0a1
In-reply-to: <d446c074-bbcf-a824-041c-e45958e0b0a2@bluepopcorn.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-language: en-US
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-ClientProxiedBy: CH2PR07CA0032.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:20::45) To DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:4:7b::16)
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from [146.151.213.183] (146.151.213.183) by CH2PR07CA0032.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:20::45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3239.18 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:10:59 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [146.151.213.183]
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: cbb8c1a4-b946-4f10-cb17-08d8357d143a
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM5PR06MB3259:
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <DM5PR06MB3259D795DB32103AE75BA3F7F64E0@DM5PR06MB3259.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:7691;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: OPiST3wyHW4g0uSDEEPRV49F8CoLYTJkhyj4tNr9tb+Mxffx54zuZ0Lcj+IuOSYGScgNo8qHASOZLCC8JcbiA7V1mZZRZJi6cT3gCm7+8FFbgnzarsJo4Zu2TXhW97BkciewAvSy+zwh0PRNDluqhObfPvm1TLpZKFKKWoUfYMiMGTpNSXdnKJ436gxnaD1S+LcYjwfsvTYjmDmCJv/3hUcd2gxvTqktdHBBdn99rTIB2bnIPF8Uznu/u1Hww/9FCQrxz6SvICGNTsb3nab1equntyG5neRONU5TsqMRAjKyS1ggvxvxgNlwz3+tUElolUtNoRSdrG1kYo+FyMpV7itsFHaU77Je7tLv+pAs1jprUC4XxnShobAJZBsQt+4Kproyc9nwQtIPbts5ECjeGaTzZuwihrqgHu7IOYmfw/DR9AhD3cNZHAbz1YDT1+hBYM3LNkFcgBv2NpumCPTptLvx8Sba0Tv9MgjLjJHjaNo=
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(396003)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(136003)(366004)(44832011)(316002)(786003)(53546011)(16526019)(16576012)(2616005)(26005)(8676002)(956004)(31686004)(36756003)(6486002)(186003)(75432002)(8936002)(2906002)(6916009)(4744005)(5660300002)(6706004)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(478600001)(31696002)(86362001)(3940600001)(130980200001)(223123001)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: wisc.edu
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cbb8c1a4-b946-4f10-cb17-08d8357d143a
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM5PR0601MB3671.namprd06.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2020 18:11:00.0576 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 2ca68321-0eda-4908-88b2-424a8cb4b0f9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: +0SWKeIg+2+c90VuNUrNM92SfXc36OFxwGySCIGXYXxbxF4eoSd8dt2tiuF197titKy1DevWJ8RldpM1wSZPew==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR06MB3259
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/pky-JoVJqN5JYG4orxN9La1Voew>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] non-mailing list use case for differing header domains
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:11:05 -0000

On 7/30/20 5:52 PM, Jim Fenton wrote:
> There's an underlying assumption here that I don't agree with: that
> DMARC adoption equates to the publication of a p=reject DMARC policy,
> and that everyone (or at least all Fortune 500 companies) should be
> doing that. p=reject should only be used when the usage patterns of the
> domain support that policy. I'm more inclined to say that 85% of Fortune
> 500 companies are savvy enough not to publish a policy that doesn't fit
> their usage patterns.

I think you're right, and isn't the market indicating that there is demand for DMARC designed for other usage patterns?  e.g. Would the CEO of any of those fortune 500 companies like the idea of their personal address being spoofed?

Jesse

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email