Re: [DMM] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility-15

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Wed, 09 January 2019 13:00 UTC

Return-Path: <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559DB128766 for <dmm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 05:00:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.954
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=bPCKnIGc; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Ox1SYgyN
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tpECFGwsN1E5 for <dmm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 05:00:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C6461293B1 for <dmm@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 05:00:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1547038815; x=1549630815; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ktCbk24Y66y0MJaf0BaTVBeglxRSUPIISN+BJDE5ZZ4=; b=bPCKnIGcdecz95NsIP04+67tEGhIgShDUzEdXF4PVoN6JKDkNi1FapIxfX33Ryex +Zje9BV6sufDV1yjutzRXppRo/5/njlemH0p8iRa5Rg/BzrnL1zSsNZyENYnqgqf M5BN5V3NnX0KiHOji4kvkgNpQPwh5XWjTSrhS3e9S9g=;
X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-167ff7000000672c-d0-5c35f05f6699
Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2F.FB.26412.F50F53C5; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:00:15 +0100 (CET)
Received: from ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:00:15 +0100
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:00:14 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ktCbk24Y66y0MJaf0BaTVBeglxRSUPIISN+BJDE5ZZ4=; b=Ox1SYgyN1iIakTGa/gyyf34gRGYDskia7acUIefyFXQB2K3yj7fXMRT/KdBbkPjUBraiGoB9KDIWW8I7MeVTmnFYU86hkHBlxsnwRAle8IexHnTxRzuBTMF859mGbJfklsZkj0zNbEsILLNipt7tZxOL8Z933aWfiomLoWFgZGA=
Received: from DB7PR07MB4988.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.42.222) by DB7PR07MB5515.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.46.206) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1516.6; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:00:13 +0000
Received: from DB7PR07MB4988.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::59db:b1cc:5d05:1f08]) by DB7PR07MB4988.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::59db:b1cc:5d05:1f08%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1516.010; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:00:13 +0000
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "Moses, Danny" <danny.moses@intel.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility.all@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, "tsv-art@ietf.org" <tsv-art@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility-15
Thread-Index: AQHUqA/e5tanoq6sXECORVaTjo0T9A==
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 13:00:13 +0000
Message-ID: <DB7PR07MB49889A17994AAADBDD459087958B0@DB7PR07MB4988.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <154696674971.25571.1339944415060306908@ietfa.amsl.com> <F0CF5715D3D1884BAC731EA1103AC281441BE373@HASMSX106.ger.corp.intel.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.91]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB7PR07MB5515; 6:dazG8lf+MJ5H94lTMkcULBw/6UnxdsVsOjTary7guE9YAoZTygBzyPeWaYYOLqlH1uuN1nXdDagXWeCka6wViYJf4Z+2ZoFrM2K7wiqdnX0h6ppyEtlajvywX8YU96ZxyGTl1I/pGv837bT9/DCG6Z5USg2zo0SqPHY2rjGC+8gqoVSJasxyPwF4Pn3Yw3z2M9ys3M3BKpwAJ9kTdiiZU30xdoIr0YWgyqKUFlJuaIEMb1JMY0iPKnKtMATsXjgatHqSF23r2e1490A2vqSrn5TvVnx7t88/z4xiZC6IBsM4pO5M8T+nSvUbWPUvhjhgXWHaqWR0Uams+uWypKjOhvoRvShD+xAB4wGDxf5txQW8onbINC3Qu8l0DDIOQejhh5kdkH1rDjudYmiq6nP4UK3m5Qh5T2+sT6DDyczxNG6v6yJ6U9kqXjDFJpGIpC7J5fk9WIvdbp0K0KXRuev6yA==; 5:xHl+F1WqN9oEKSYVjxS7/Fx+ZxdG8RfmwCTPmP4gd9Oy2jW9uB8Sh+bOI4EMCItLg2D82lUiT0wHWMfTrXMSoNQz8w4Rs+mYimPNSUEw0suFFTDrnnsxgMdDEabN9cn9QEUEaZDV8eCxBOYahZJFN4B1WU7BtY8RgsHijDsyCQ0VtqVBggjG3sCm9Su8L1blOfUCQrZBp8SFN8Ef7+FfLA==; 7:ab6m76K171IgDA5Gq+NS7apO8JkSPXUrlz4FtyLpLqUtquFWEYMErNy6Sv5LbGdDe7jIgbZpqzctgWoGCxPXonP7iuLPAOHySAvy63makwPw/ciZRgzidikYvObAu+7ftApxiaJuxc+Z2AkzYPxwSA==
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f544bd75-4d32-4126-68a3-08d67632651c
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600109)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:DB7PR07MB5515;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB5515:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB7PR07MB5515C93BA0AB869871A34081958B0@DB7PR07MB5515.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(3230021)(908002)(999002)(5005026)(6040522)(8220060)(2401047)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3231475)(944501520)(52105112)(3002001)(10201501046)(6041310)(20161123558120)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(20161123564045)(201708071742011)(7699051)(76991095); SRVR:DB7PR07MB5515; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DB7PR07MB5515;
x-forefront-prvs: 0912297777
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(136003)(366004)(51914003)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(105586002)(106356001)(5660300001)(54906003)(4326008)(2906002)(6916009)(33656002)(316002)(99286004)(76176011)(8676002)(6506007)(53546011)(7696005)(44832011)(97736004)(186003)(102836004)(446003)(81166006)(81156014)(26005)(256004)(74316002)(66574012)(305945005)(7736002)(486006)(55016002)(5024004)(6436002)(68736007)(3846002)(476003)(14444005)(6116002)(71190400001)(71200400001)(8936002)(9686003)(25786009)(14454004)(86362001)(478600001)(53936002)(6246003)(229853002)(66066001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB7PR07MB5515; H:DB7PR07MB4988.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: tqxeW0nPCRNt2ksmJt3hibs/z8CXFw6WsD0fbpSpo+Lkud+req97Xe6MdR5Z+OaKl3aZ/uuobOLQuni3ygNlpQUgXw5mkp9a2WJwW4S/sKiOy03hJVB7Yu8kQWaGMQeR+ZR1MlLeG6HnT1fARXaikHtyK4VAYUILG/WWoUTmTrvy5qBHGCrZyQ6K+7UrvlVQcLD+Ie8MPSck1m71N6lCEpB27d+afgv+WFzX8yk4JKFlduqgdqp9H8iNgpKjgWR/UuImgP5RXmKcBC+L5VmfQ9s9oiaL+X1e3X1B/M2Hr5zh2amDDdaxpa0vObNvu1lZ
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f544bd75-4d32-4126-68a3-08d67632651c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jan 2019 13:00:13.5996 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB5515
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0hTYRjHec9lO44Gx6n45IViFYV5R2ldsCII6Y5RlKx06knNOWXHRDPy WuoknaAfXOG2nBWVy0xxon5QNE1yXSVvqdUs7WqSWDgrz86Cvv2e9/9/rrwULqkivahkVQaj VimUUoGIqDnRmhMQMxcuD24q8ZEND8yQssm3F2TL5mlc9v6+npDpOq4Tu8hIk+kXFlnXMYsd waJFOxIYZXImow6KiBUllX3XCtILQ7JK6m7heahxkwa5UECHQY+tVMixhO5B8Kr+mAaJVngB gcX+EOODOgyGP9oRFxC0FoeK3nIBr1RiYHhsFvD5bxBcrffmWEDLYORnvuPdnfaD8s/FJJeA 008RVBqKME5wo/fDzNg4wZsOQK+tBdcgaoUDobjEjUOCXg9Gi4hziGk5fOk3I77vFQTNhZdw TkC0L0wuTjjK4LQnjNr0GL8bDaaOJzjPHjD77jfJ+xUwnD/t9KyFsZt9BM++8Fxf5mgAdIEQ FhqNQl4IgLnqamehg2AatWK8aWWZ/oIXzmw/eF3Uh7ipgU4B07czvOcZDp3dFqfHBx6UXhPw wlcS2u8MCbUoSPff5Dz7g6F9XsDzZrhh/ITrHCdwhUc1NsKAiNvIg2VYNjUxNDSQUSfHs2ya KlDFZDShlb/S1by0zYK6PuzuRjSFpKvEltFwuYRUZLLZqd0IKFzqLt44HiaXiBMU2ecZdVqM +pySYbuRN0VIPcV2iatcQicqMpgUhkln1P9UjHLxykMbtq6LOj6X1TBV7hK1XNu6tH1xaMvL 1Ghv14udLjHMoa6Jw/4DS4Xk3swgYvbUslXrnTu5Z6pFW2teffKHSld1949HnHWqLbNkJH6N JittMLZp0J6rGvM62pA9DmeTrQEpE237prD5nUZzC1Jevnc6ArU1FGsrwuLsnVnBOfoQKcEm KUL8cDWr+AtQ/8zQJwMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/jbQGCL8fmRS5MjBOKlgoyAJ0Oww>
Subject: Re: [DMM] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility-15
X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group <dmm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmm>, <mailto:dmm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmm/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm>, <mailto:dmm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 13:00:21 -0000

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification below. I think the document could be a bit
clearer on the intention of the different aspects of the document. For
example the Socket API parts being declared more clearer as not being a
specification and only an exploration of the potential solutions.

Regarding TAPS, that comment was truly about potential for further
improvements to both DMM's and TAPS goals by cooperation. TAPS impact on
this document could at most be an informational statement in section 3.4
(Conveying the Desired Address Type) but also that may be premature as
the mobility related aspects expands the TAPS scope somewhat to my
understanding.

Cheers

Magnus

On 2019-01-09 12:38, Moses, Danny wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. I think I understand the concern. Perhaps it is partly due to not participating in the presentations and discussions that took place in DMM over the past several years.
>
> Let me try and add some more context.
> The desire to optimize mobility services is part of DMM's charter. By the way, similar work was also carried out the 3GPP (the SSC feature - Service and Session Continuity) for Release-15 - the first 5G release and we have tried to stay in sync with that work.
>
> Handling such optimization requires the following steps:
> 1. Having the application express its session continuity preferences.
> 2. Conveying these requirements to the mobile network.
> 3. Selecting the session continuity scheme by the network.
> 4. Notification: Network to mobile node.
> 5. Providing results to the application
>
> We have developed several drafts that deals with entire flow. This draft defines the different service levels and handles steps (1) and (5). There is another individual draft - draft-moses-dmm-dhcp-ondemand-mobility-10 that handles (2) and (4) via DHCPv6 extension and draft-feng-dmm-ra-prefixtype-03 that handles (4) via an RA (Router Advertisement) option.
>
> There were several discussions as to whether this draft should specify Socket extensions or provide guidelines for an API provided by the network stack to applications. The decision, eventually, was that since IETF does not specify the Socket API, we should not specify Socket extensions, but rather, provide guidelines for such functionality.  
>
> As for TAPS I can prepare a topic to be discussed in the WG to see if there is any interest in this work over there. I hope however, that this is not gating the approval of this draft.
>
> Can we discuss TAPS separately?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 18:59
> To: tsv-art@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dmm-ondemand-mobility-15
>
> Reviewer: Magnus Westerlund
> Review result: Ready with Nits
>
> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF discussion list for information.
>
> When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review.
>
> First of all I do become a bit uncertain about the intentions of this document.
> As an informational document I think discussing an possible optimization and how it can be solved is all okay. What I fail to see the point and a likely a source of confusion is the draft socket API changes which may be considered as solutions. However, an detailed solution to the problem space requires one to actually dig into some of the areas the document explicitly calls outside of its intentions. Thus, I wished the document was a bit clearer on its purpose of only sketching an idea and be firmer of not actually offering a ready solution that can be implemented. Thus, I think there are risks with having something that appears to define a socket API extension. If the intention is to actually define socket API extensions then I think there are much more that needs to be defined and solved.
>
> Secondly, I think the proponents of this work should have a long and serious discussion if the ongoing work in the TAPS WG can actually provide an better way forward for the API as well as provide an improvement to the TAPS architecture. Because if an application specifies its needs for session continuity then an TAPS implementation could fulfill this either using a combination of TCP with Session lasting IP address or with Non-persistent IP address and transport protocols that has built in session mobility or continuity features such as MPTCP or QUIC.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> A member of the Intel Corporation group of companies
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>

-- 

Magnus Westerlund 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------