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From: Tim Wicinski <tjw.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2025 14:19:24 -0500
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To: Philip Homburg <pch-dns-at-ietf@u-1.phicoh.com>
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CC: dns-at-ietf@ietf.org, Paul Wouters <paul=40nohats.ca@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Paul W made a good point about .onion, .ZZ, .internal, etc - they sucked up
an amazing amount of WG time and energy.
Not for lack of trying, but it really points to a truth folks hate to
accept:

The Universe abhors a dingy painted bikeshed


As for advancing documents lacking implementations, we as chairs were given
guidance that it's fine to adopt a document
which does not currently have implementations, and are very happy to let it
drop if the implementations don't appear.
I see this in some of the v6 groups.

I will admit I personally held up the advancement of dns-structured-error
for more than a year waiting for more discussion on implementations
that we knew were done, but tucked away.  I am sure the authors were not
happy about this.
During our DNSOP chairs calls we regularly talked if certain drafts had
interest in implementing.
I found it useful to listen to Benno's guidance on these matters.

An early mistake we made in dprive was publishing DNS-over-DTLS where there
were no implementations, and the authors were *not interested* in working
on an implementation or attempting to work with developers on creating even
prototypes.

I feel like ADD had some similar issues with a few of their documents, but
my memory is hazy.

tim

(memories may be hazy)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:monospace">Paul W made a good point about .onion, .ZZ, .interna=
l, etc - they sucked up an amazing amount of WG time and energy.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">Not for lack of try=
ing, but it really points to a truth folks hate to accept:<br><br></div></d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">The Universe abho=
rs a dingy painted bikeshed</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">As for advancing =
documents lacking implementations, we as chairs were given guidance that it=
&#39;s fine to adopt a document</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:monospace">which does not currently have implementations, and a=
re very happy to let it drop if the implementations don&#39;t appear.=C2=A0=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">I see th=
is in some of the v6 groups.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:monospace">I will admit I personally held up the advancement of=
 dns-structured-error for more than a year waiting for more discussion=C2=
=A0on implementations</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:monospace">that we knew were done, but tucked away.=C2=A0 I am sure the a=
uthors were not happy about this.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:monospace">During our DNSOP chairs calls we regul=
arly talked if certain drafts had interest in implementing.=C2=A0 <br>I fou=
nd it useful to listen to Benno&#39;s guidance on these matters.=C2=A0</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">An early mistake =
we made in dprive was publishing DNS-over-DTLS where there were no implemen=
tations, and the authors were *not interested* in working on an implementat=
ion or attempting to work with developers on creating even prototypes.=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">I feel li=
ke ADD had some similar issues with a few of their documents, but my memory=
 is hazy.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mo=
nospace">tim</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:m=
onospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace">(memories may be hazy)</div></div>

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