Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
Raymond Burkholder <ray@oneunified.net> Wed, 13 March 2019 02:20 UTC
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To: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>, dnsop@ietf.org
Cc: "dns-privacy@ietf.org" <dns-privacy@ietf.org>, "doh@ietf.org" <doh@ietf.org>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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From: Raymond Burkholder <ray@oneunified.net>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:20:42 -0600
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Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
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On 2019-03-12 4:51 p.m., Paul Vixie wrote: > On Tuesday, 12 March 2019 21:38:44 UTC Stephen Farrell wrote: > DoH intends "to prevent on-path interference with DNS operations", and that's > well beyond the remit of RFC 7626, and is therefore not spoken to one way or > another by IETF consensus. i do not believe that a non-interference objective > would reach broader IETF consensus. perhaps we can test that one day. I'm not sure I understand the double-double negative happening here. It appears to me that there is considerable support for DoH, meaning there is support for non-interference. In the IPv6 spectrum with the mac/slaac randomization games which have become standardized, and which have been instituted to supply other forms of security/hiding/non-interference, it appears that DoH would similarly be 'allowed' through the standardization process. Having said that, and if this is how one performs the testing, I would have to say that DoH would be make it much harder for me as a security engineer to perform my duties. It would seem that if DoH is standardized, then it would probably become standard practice, then like 8.8.8.8 and similar quads, by default meaningful data becomes hidden for managing the interior of networks. For some networks, pi-hole is a mechanism for preventing certain traffic operations. AS I look at it this moment, it has over 112K domains blacklisted, and on one particular network, 31% of the queries have been blocked as a passive protection mechanism. I find these blocks useful. With DoH, probably DoH would become ubiquitous, and these types of blocks would be prevented. Https is common ground for much hiding. DNS is probably our last bastion of having any semblance of identification of what is happneing to the interior of our networks. Carriers might not be so concerned. But for those who operation enterprise, business, home, some forms of social protection, security management becomes more difficult. As has happened in the IPv6 space, the same happens here in the DNS space: there are groups who wish the privacy/non-interference/hiding ability vs the groups who need the information in the data streams to properly secure and manage the interior and perimeter. How would the requirements of each group be recognized? The simplest would be to not proceed with DoH.
- [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Doh] [DNSOP] Ne… Winfield, Alister
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Jim Reid
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Jim Reid
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Michael Sinatra
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Yishai Beeri (yishaib)
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Ralf Weber
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Brian Haberman
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… william manning
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie