Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org> Tue, 12 March 2019 18:17 UTC
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Cc: nalini elkins <nalini.elkins@e-dco.com>, "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com>, "doh@ietf.org" <doh@ietf.org>, "dnsop@ietf.org" <dnsop@ietf.org>, "Ackermann, Michael" <mackermann@bcbsm.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, "dns-privacy@ietf.org" <dns-privacy@ietf.org>, Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola=40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:17:41 +0000
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Organization: Vixie Freehold
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Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
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On Monday, 11 March 2019 18:18:38 UTC Eliot Lear wrote: ... > > i wonder if everyone here knows that TLS 1.3 and encrypted headers is > > going to push a SOCKS agenda onto enterprises that had not previously > > needed one, and that simply blocking every external endpoint known or > > tested to support DoH will be the cheaper alternative, even if that makes > > millions of other endpoints at google, cloudflare, cisco, and ibm > > unreachable as a side effect? > > That or it will require a bit more management at the MDM level. I’m hoping > the latter. And I hope that one output of all of these documents will be a > recommendation regarding MDM interfaces. MDM is a cooperation protocol. that is, both the operator and the app or user have to want data management to be be mastered (DM to be M, so, MDM). this is off-topic for DoH, which seeks to prevent on-path interference with DNS operations. that is, someone or something using DoH cannot be expected to seek cooperation with the network operator. teenagers and malware being two easy examples. BYOD being another. pre-DoH, it was possible to ensure that noncompliance with MDM would yield failures. that is, disallowing outbound 53 and 853 except from the operator's own name servers. post-DoH, such enforcement is (deliberately) impossible. can we therefore please stop talking about MDM here. vixie
- [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Doh] [DNSOP] Ne… Winfield, Alister
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clie… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Jim Reid
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Neil Cook
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Jim Reid
- Re: [dns-privacy] [EXTERNAL] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Michael Sinatra
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Yishai Beeri (yishaib)
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-do… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Ralf Weber
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Wouters
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… nalini elkins
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Eliot Lear
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Paul Vixie
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Brian Haberman
- Re: [dns-privacy] [Doh] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertol… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Christian Huitema
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Brian Dickson
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertol… Raymond Burkholder
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… william manning
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-… Paul Vixie