[dns-privacy] IETF 118 hackaton: Does Not Scale: Rethinking DNS

Petr Špaček <pspacek@isc.org> Fri, 15 September 2023 16:14 UTC

Message-ID: <6d976f05-b6a1-493c-ab62-e354d03d38f5@isc.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:14:28 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
From: Petr Špaček <pspacek@isc.org>
To: dnsop@ietf.org, "dns-operations@dns-oarc.net" <dns-operations@dns-oarc.net>, dns-privacy <dns-privacy@ietf.org>
Content-Language: en-US
Autocrypt: addr=pspacek@isc.org; keydata= xsFNBF/OJ/4BEAC0jP/EShRZtcI9KmzVK4IoD/GEDtcaNEEQzPt05G8xtC0P4uteXUwW8jaB CdcKIKR4eUJw3wdXXScLNlyh0i+gm5mIvKPrBYNAMOGGnkbAmMQOt9Q+TyGeTSSGiAjfvd/N nYg7L/KjVbG0sp6pAWVORMpR0oChHflzKSjvJITCGdpwagxSffU2HeWrLN7ePES6gPbtZ8HY KHUqjWZQsXLkMFw4yj8ZXuGarLwdBMB7V/9YHVkatJPjTsP8ZE723rV18iLiMvBqh4XtReEP 0vGQgiHnLnKs+reDiFy0cSOG0lpUWVGI50znu/gBuZRtTAE0LfMa0oAYaq997Y4k+na6JvHK hhaZMy82cD4YUa/xNnUPMXJjkJOBV4ghz/58GiT32lj4rdccjQO4zlvtjltjp9MTOFbRNI+I FCf9bykANotR+2BzttYKuCcred+Q7+wSDp9FQDdpUOiGnzT8oQukOuqiEh3J8hinHPGhtovH V22D0cU6T/u9mzvYoULhExPvXZglCLEuM0dACtjVsoyDkFVnTTupaPVuORgoW7nyNl0wDrII ILBqUBwzCdhQpYnyARSjx0gWSG1AQBKkk5SHQBqi1RAYC38M59SkpH0IKj+SaZbUJnuqshXh UIbY1GMHbW/GDhz7pNQFFYm2S4OPUBcmh/0O0Osma151/HjF7wARAQABzR9QZXRyIMWgcGHE jWVrIDxwc3BhY2VrQGlzYy5vcmc+wsGXBBMBCABBAhsDBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4B AheAAhkBFiEEEVO2++xeDVoSYmDzq9WHzfBlga4FAmOy+ukFCQXDY2sACgkQq9WHzfBlga5N Eg/+P6lTHvp6mWTatgv7M8J+H3NAnMvJgDrtxN+rVdf9cZDOYGymn/G0ebOqIncRnJ7MPsma G0kjhk4TZNWY6AGyQjg6jVw85rdYTqCBmTTGrR39gnTnanYjEAHL15vpi0T6DC/DMMmpoKNz S6eh4atayF2yVMxUZG9SFkAF+Bukc4VLe1uPgzVDYiabBWsgB+p4NijwiEYbmYChwr5NBAf7 HIrS6MyEVoUeSOzf40lcTg7wp+YFvbQeQ/Xf0F3dPy93lLTWhw8uYSzxQx86SY0sKDhcueQs DK5FeNQvXrZwyoCOG82cxxzUFFb/vXfFw53JoPg33PPPZlSoZYY6T4CqmUittP/UVJw8Gu/w 2NQwwkWq+2Xt6dNJWV7EfXlHz/iwaZaJtNoodPUHQ0X+17/GcYuMhbEIMNq5yW9HfEAuGXbf V8KruYOjWIIVI99kelwnIrshAvjpX31GOZeI9pI+D7QqBCyD8GwHheXkW+iaeY6800IOLclv dWZAgfyi6P6kJusdHextK3d85dmPUkn9KaRpWT3+UpAjTEOQUWuwCC2ivVZQTcddV9Sptnfc iMwxGmaZRZx1hrESA8rQLWeko1he8fJbC3cj+tlgRRdHnsw8bxzyRh7OGPkqGJNbeT6Z3BSy /j0XrFyJIOXhtbD/hXR1JeiDTZuwhOSP8hqItr3OwU0EX84n/gEQANARNXihDNc1fLNFZK5s O14Yg2TouK9eo9gGh4yLSrmZ3pjtnuJSpTWmGD4g0EYzhwWA/T+CqjUnrhsvzLQ1ECYVqLpM VqK2OJ9PhLRbx1ITd4SKO/0xvXFkUqDTIF6a5mUCXH5DzTQGSmJwcjoRv3ye+Z1lDzOKJ+Qr gDHM2WLGlSZAVGcUeD1S2Mp/FroNOjGzrFXsUhOBNMo8PSC4ap0ZgYeVBq5aiMaQex0r+uM4 45S1z5N2nkNRYlUARkfKirqQxJ4mtj5XPC/jtdaUiMzvnwcMmLAwPlDNYiU0kO5IqJFBdzmJ yjzomVk1zK9AYS/woeIxETs+s6o7qXtMGGIoMWr6pirpHk4Wgp4TS02BSTSmNzParrFxLpEU dFKq3M0IsBCVGvfNgWL2pKKQVq34fwuBhJFQAigR9B3O9mfaeejrqt73Crp0ng0+Q74+Llzj EIJLOHYTMISTJyxYzhMCQlgPkKoj+TSVkRzBZoYFkUt4OXvlFj73wkeqeF8Z1YWoOCIjwXH9 0u2lPEq0cRHHyK+KSeH1zQJ4xgj0QDGPmkvi81D13sRaaNu3uSfXEDrdYYc+TSZd2bVh2VCr xrcfzQ1uz9fsdC9NPdNd7/mHvcAaNc5e9IhNh67L54aMBkzlJi18d0sWXOOHkyLSvbHnC/OP wv7qCf69PUJmtoeHABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQRU7b77F4NWhJiYPOr1YfN8GWBrgUC Y7L7EwUJBcNjlQAKCRCr1YfN8GWBrhHmEACH5ailkji2meFhmfNF7CdR67gcGL5abm5Ac/68 eXzX6xwNQsb04xS+SUnDXf0g5pt3QmzPARfA45z/Wd6HLv7eAcMVbMotG5gxcaEn6M26gDhd o6C/haYRNYUecfqE2GJlMVNQ3ozLiUZHI0UzWgf7eleASywvl4XKfxaRQnu75T2cOVqGhvqc Re0vpUFyoIKH5JwgoQYZ7vcL0LgoL4YspvfzhifYXeU7ymy3L763kQjAfTRqpaIpb0NEb4Qc Viq2Wm7ajwYcCeuZYicShPXeHa69SJqoLENPDSSJfxAOQyN7v5I2ZbqKvlu/9JBvR+ggPJMw Dq2G1GoJuAyT1M5vBVyJ4+AWwq+ujQuYCWgUX9UBIQfgxE1srFL9e229AaX57MebGya6/pBb tlV5ntXrvFh8DSsIAslhO7mybhMij6DWcGX7AB/9+y4xiQanKPAiJTOVMe020CgwbcXYIggp ts1rdXizZImC2qp7EqUbL7egCUsr8LO/8tJ3jGdxoaSK4eaTAc/Ii10NYN7PRs8KWHSHYRbp PTcFT2b45dOeVvbAfgMrZeSmUlutJ0O8QbwI/+dK5wXMW0dQY3w5glV2ELBX+98d9L3haKy+ EFtFHCUTmNuoCAp0oz94MJTYp23XKXfl/PClosk3xCMPl/dcQqgMDhOyF33Dz+IdLQ8qnw==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/NnvYmd-cLI62CGaeIS9jX2ATQXo>
Subject: [dns-privacy] IETF 118 hackaton: Does Not Scale: Rethinking DNS
Precedence: list

Hello all!

I would like to invite you to a "round table" planned during IETF 118
hackathon [1] - Saturday and Sunday before IETF 118.

We plan to have an open and friendly brainstorming session with people
who work on the DNS protocol, write implementations, and operate networks.

The purpose is to brainstorm and think about DNS without being bound by
current protocol constraints. Where are we hitting limits? What can we
do about them? Do you want to put your protocol pet peeve out of its misery?

If you want to join, please list yourself here:
https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/azXrrv7d.
This will allow us to secure a large enough workspace.

Participants are expected to come with their homework done. Bring a list
of limitations you can see in the current protocol with you, and don't
hesitate to think big. Hate the duplicate TTLs in DNS messages? Please
write it down. Want secure & flexible transport protocol specification?
Never liked the compression method? Put it on the list.

As a teaser, here are a couple of real-world motivating questions just
to get us started.

How do we make DNS:
... scalable so it can transfer millions of zones? And how do we monitor
it? [2]
... handle humongous post-quantum crypto keys and signatures, in both
protocol and transport? [3]
... support distributed multi-master setups?
... extensible to new wire format & at the same time, maintain a single
namespace?
... simpler to operate? What if we rethink basic assumptions? [4] (see
the talk starting at 33:40)

[1] https://wiki.ietf.org/en/meeting/118/hackathon
[2] https://indico.dns-oarc.net/event/47/contributions/1017/
[3] https://indico.dns-oarc.net/event/46/contributions/985/
[4]
https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/PUZu_QsO_rdY0gavMatzFOSVpZY1oNahNYnPBuy6pgTUJARw-YIOEzWEV11aqaHW.4Cwr3dGRlunUwhD9?startTime=1693897245000

It's unlikely we will produce running code, but hopefully we'll generate
some good ideas and possibly proto-I-Ds.

--
Petr Špaček
Internet Systems Consortium

[dns-privacy] IETF 118 hackaton: Does Not Scale: … Petr Špaček