Re: [dns-privacy] [Ext] Re: ADoT requirements for authentication?

Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> Fri, 01 November 2019 15:16 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDAE1208D1 for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 08:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3flCFXpol2ii for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 08:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vk1-xa2b.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6EBF1208BF for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 08:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-vk1-xa2b.google.com with SMTP id k19so2267211vke.10 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 08:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=i8XCVyBkVhDOcq01xOixWZuw7URL5TJjDCEW5/zKkys=; b=S3zOZ+FoHVqV3DR1hd1Zp0iI5XvayBzgaklnm+IYyjT5gW4ahnm1zP9HU01rTaiOiH 4LqEieCamPae+MP8mhFFNY7D5YKPAI9ZV1k80pp60cu9itZBehvYfm2Mc6QDlEbfLGT9 i+UKESonoLauNeB73D6Rc9MU+lpFQcBAJnLi+zYuYFtffXwmmCvvh+68NRdDA73Tofsk xa3yGHzztCZlOrLMzQegy8zYlOeIwUVJAlR4CAnQrQUdh7DCFebC6Ffs0d5+drNKXTyt vAnlmnutrbL+KXn2E5IXZdQauTtxdCZkC5kqF8REMt7ER/2umijbL2KpxYzuwfKHUfu6 Twvw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=i8XCVyBkVhDOcq01xOixWZuw7URL5TJjDCEW5/zKkys=; b=JfxennlPDSqli/JgQWyDA7XWFeHSUf0YialtgjbLJ1AzPC9vrQINKx4wIj00zH17zr On1m7UGD16Lxv2ud5qVcFOteJK6I647RD4w64uGtOsaPulLLb07uh6COeeXW3TA2nES3 PuYUsFs+W4kY38fMrmz/4ceDBh65O1jXK1UfzLePak/yCkK5cMlp5BLZfMojR1iZMa+v wxmd1qzk92p8mW1Frm+ByPeSHexFlhTNevkmcrHLPk0zXrZGR0sCcH57XJUnvTGLkVOg Og9qxBZmC4JWYLs73+z2BbSnXhBB3nC6DtqGuCns1wQNReRGM6ISnDBsdUFDuIlpiz5s BjnQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAhdUxRvCE2SATYcdiFgyng+eSKuC/oSfN5dMr3yRzLr2fnHHf kdJU3UDZxoPJ0yOBaLli04ItX8JvpP3BoiujHj4=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyBuO2MbFGHxbBL45tNZXLtsEHAl0998nOP5TH84f70xzolyDQQ7Z3flzw2Lnk1IsdjvknBUuOiYcNX6Pom3gE=
X-Received: by 2002:a1f:54c5:: with SMTP id i188mr4127515vkb.65.1572621404339; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 08:16:44 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAHbrMsDwDoTQN8Y5Zk7rSVepjwwyatEyAA6f0oJ9DESmAfHfXg@mail.gmail.com> <20191031211222.A6422DBC1C7@ary.qy> <CAH1iCiqYoXMZ0U3yt8AjUXyZVRdDnmHzSpHvYmg++ACZ-U6=zA@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBP-k23ZY=f6Lv5A+B+Z_4ar_9ea=G7O+KRriXNLUzKGqw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBP-k23ZY=f6Lv5A+B+Z_4ar_9ea=G7O+KRriXNLUzKGqw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 10:16:11 -0500
Message-ID: <CAH1iCiq_HtErNkeq4hWQJnsDJPn1Zxv0uCLX+HK3QcsSzdxRww@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>, dns-privacy@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c02ac05964a745e"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/d8MLtGvmkP2c5FBab9aR57-mjIk>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] [Ext] Re: ADoT requirements for authentication?
X-BeenThere: dns-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dns-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dns-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 15:16:48 -0000

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:38 PM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 2:41 PM Brian Dickson <
> brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IMNSHO, ADoT at the leaf + QNAME minimization is all that is required for
>> privacy.
>> I.e. No need for ADoT anywhere other than at the leaf zone's name server
>> (whose NS name might not be in-bailiwick, FYI).
>>
>
> Hmm.... I think that's only true if you are assuming that the NS record
> for the leaf is DNSSEC secured, but that doesn't seem like a safe
> assumption.
>

Let me re-emphasize this from the original statement: "FOR PRIVACY".

DNSSEC security is orthogonal to privacy, and is not a requirement FOR
PRIVACY.

I.e. it is always true.

Brian