Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Wed, 13 March 2019 02:59 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC666128701 for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7-hNwD-IVEDp for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E31912D4E9 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xsmtp04.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.231]) by mx61.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1h3u6x-000Btk-SZ for dns-privacy@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:59:20 +0100
Received: from [10.5.2.12] (helo=xmail02.myhosting.com) by xsmtp04.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1h3u6n-00086V-4D for dns-privacy@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 22:59:11 -0400
Received: (qmail 25282 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2019 02:59:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.103]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.56.42.166]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail02.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>; 13 Mar 2019 02:59:07 -0000
To: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>, dnsop@ietf.org
Cc: "dns-privacy@ietf.org" <dns-privacy@ietf.org>, "doh@ietf.org" <doh@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <1700920918.12557.1552229700654@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <5342244.Q90AZAhhXk@linux-9daj> <a8a31672-40ef-3886-472b-0eca7df15262@cs.tcd.ie> <2356055.DoC3vY7yXE@linux-9daj>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFIRX8gBCAC26usy/Ya38IqaLBSu33vKD6hP5Yw390XsWLaAZTeQR64OJEkoOdXpvcOS HWfMIlD5s5+oHfLe8jjmErFAXYJ8yytPj1fD2OdSKAe1TccUBiOXT8wdVxSr5d0alExVv/LO I/vA2aU1TwOkVHKSapD7j8/HZBrqIWRrXUSj2f5n9tY2nJzG9KRzSG0giaJWBfUFiGb4lvsy IaCaIU0YpfkDDk6PtK5YYzuCeF0B+O7N9LhDu/foUUc4MNq4K3EKDPb2FL1Hrv0XHpkXeMRZ olpH8SUFUJbmi+zYRuUgcXgMZRmZFL1tu6z9h6gY4/KPyF9aYot6zG28Qk/BFQRtj7V1ABEB AAG0J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PokBOQQTAQIAIwUC UhFfyAIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJNDCbJVyA1yhbYH/1ud6x6m VqGIp0JcZUfSQO8w+TjugqxCyGNn+w/6Qb5O/xENxNQ4HaMQ5uSRK9n8WKKDDRSzwZ4syKKf wbkfj05vgFxrjCynVbm1zs2X2aGXh+PxPL/WHUaxzEP7KjYbLtCUZDRzOOrm+0LMktngT/k3 6+EZoLEM52hwwpIAzJoscyEz7QfqMOZtFm6xQnlvDQeIrHx0KUvwo/vgDLK3SuruG1CSHcR0 D24kEEUa044AIUKBS3b0b8AR7f6mP2NcnLpdsibtpabi9BzqAidcY/EjTaoea46HXALk/eJd 6OLkLE6UQe1PPzQC4jB7rErX2BxnSkHDw50xMgLRcl5/b1a5AQ0EUhFfyAEIAKp7Cp8lqKTV CC9QiAf6QTIjW+lie5J44Ad++0k8gRgANZVWubQuCQ71gxDWLtxYfFkEXjG4TXV/MUtnOliG 5rc2E+ih6Dg61Y5PQakm9OwPIsOx+2R+iSW325ngln2UQrVPgloO83QiUoi7mBJPbcHlxkhZ bd3+EjFxSLIQogt29sTcg2oSh4oljUpz5niTt69IOfZx21kf29NfDE+Iw56gfrxI2ywZbu5o G+d0ZSp0lsovygpk4jK04fDTq0vxjEU5HjPcsXC4CSZdq5E2DrF4nOh1UHkHzeaXdYR2Bn1Y wTePfaHBFlvQzI+Li/Q6AD/uxbTM0vIcsUxrv3MNHCUAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQUCUhFfyAIb LgEpCRCTQwmyVcgNcsBdIAQZAQIABgUCUhFfyAAKCRC22tOSFDh1UOlBB/94RsCJepNvmi/c YiNmMnm0mKb6vjv43OsHkqrrCqJSfo95KHyl5Up4JEp8tiJMyYT2mp4IsirZHxz/5lqkw9Az tcGAF3GlFsj++xTyD07DXlNeddwTKlqPRi/b8sppjtWur6Pm+wnAHp0mQ7GidhxHccFCl65w uT7S/ocb1MjrTgnAMiz+x87d48n1UJ7yIdI41Wpg2XFZiA9xPBiDuuoPwFj14/nK0elV5Dvq 4/HVgfurb4+fd74PV/CC/dmd7hg0ZRlgnB5rFUcFO7ywb7/TvICIIaLWcI42OJDSZjZ/MAzz BeXm263lHh+kFxkh2LxEHnQGHCHGpTYyi4Z3dv03HtkH/1SI8joQMQq00Bv+RdEbJXfEExrT u4gtdZAihwvy97OPA2nCdTAHm/phkzryMeOaOztI4PS8u2Ce5lUB6P/HcGtK/038KdX5MYST Fn8KUDt4o29bkv0CUXwDzS3oTzPNtGdryBkRMc9b+yn9+AdwFEH4auhiTQXPMnl0+G3nhKr7 jvzVFJCRif3OAhEm4vmBNDE3uuaXFQnbK56GJrnqVN+KX5Z3M7X3fA8UcVCGOEHXRP/aubiw Ngawj0V9x+43kUapFp+nF69R53UI65YtJ95ec4PTO/Edvap8h1UbdEOc4+TiYwY1TBuIKltY 1cnrjgAWUh/Ucvr++/KbD9tD6C8=
Message-ID: <891d320e-f05e-f926-f74a-7c09c6ed553a@huitema.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:59:07 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <2356055.DoC3vY7yXE@linux-9daj>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D2C8F41144BBE5C5A8945A43"
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.231
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 168.144.250.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.11)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: EX5BVjFpneJeBchSMxfU5uRqdFX5XL9mitCR6UW/F9h602E9L7XzfQH6nu9C/Fh9KJzpNe6xgvOx q3u0UDjvO0M1y7GhFqFbn9vtlWAr1mJsHgxiuwQbOUzhOZq2mlTV69sXq+nVT6giGRlUyVJKKVpr jQPFk8m4tSTfORUp3ynEm+h0A2koB3qKN5bbUQlCvB1aHZYTYX2JaePLXtK5ho32ycKuYR+eCujo ZgTPFnZKenuD+fJRvZgsOGa/86DNKY4i2I4KjPTYrQ+5jVlmW98XSSxds/SEut3IzO9i+K09BNSM IeL844hdb5YC9oOas7rU/0aIzyPhsTjj9F2Uj6usY79cyEbvO/ynfpPGXABEQWDHVvR21jQr4ydt 9ILFP/xTyMZZlIincyRwJ1jG2ZD3bkPnLatXTmXUrNRl9fBdKRQ31g4VUpqJQ0lQU8P8qMQK/auq w0IoKtNPHDY6EldTYuFU08ZfNHjA+GkLixh7cooL9qbRJJ2e8gSQUqIJRaT2qMI8ePWnQwSNEHqT FcvV1DNsMaT8Ap3F5j9ZbTSNVx8lOWz8q0jLNZuymHMiIba9NAu8mqIHSKBr2HtFQJ46U02k+vIP +mx5+Gl+I0p5MWxVNMI4bXUdeS+SftW8w95cPWLsHiU6tFs2fFlaJi7BB9fE+1x8cQag6Sv0lvJv 21n4LnI5zZgAaRoQ/U076zU2HSM79WwHGez7UH25Behsw973GMn6egAApApMONwINFmBCcViSrRI 4uua/GkX6ww8tG4ixAUTyTB6eSNdUOjMsj06rDCHQp8PBrPF8L4ccBIk1Sag4dKiqCrF8eZZfKOj pK8JPcifmTl+QqFYfLTekkrkkk/D7o5uQIXCK1xZ0Y1j33+sI/OBKqM24BesN1zg8T9ahw4hquQD upK1jiNuev6ZoZL1owl+cx82ZvUXUtWv8j8plgIpzcFk5+ckIRFsicyJMEhQFtD8PLoinrzzGiRR EvmQrtvSbV4fnBGxi7b+YM4F5vl3mjpOflNgPkkLv+za2CoOuyTHjnpJxA==
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine9.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/w0z48IxworopnU-kVdPtWp_T5Mk>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] [Doh] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
X-BeenThere: dns-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dns-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dns-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 02:59:33 -0000

On 3/12/2019 2:11 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
>> I don't see why, based on your argument, your concerns
>> trump his.
>>
>> Can you explain?
> he's trying to achieve a political aim using technology. that is not the 
> purpose for which the internet engineering task force, or the internet itself, 
> was convened. it is not why our employers pay our travel costs. and it is not 
> why the rest of the world trusts our outputs.

Sorry, but no. I am vying for network transparency, and I believe that
if filtering is to be enforced, it should be controlled by the user. You
are claiming that safety mandates giving the network operator full
control over name resolution. Both of these positions come from specific
visions about how the network should work. Neither is more a political
goal than the other.

-- Christian Huitema