[DNSOP] Re: what problem are we trying to solve, was Call for Adoption: draft-davies-internal-tld

Philip Homburg <pch-dnsop-6@u-1.phicoh.com> Tue, 06 May 2025 14:03 UTC

Return-Path: <pch-b6CAFA0C7@u-1.phicoh.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: dnsop@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76652564797 for <dnsop@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2025 07:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wE2hrfaR3Xpx for <dnsop@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2025 07:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (stereo.hq.phicoh.net [IPv6:2a10:3781:2413:1:2a0:c9ff:fe9f:17a9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8E252564792 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2025 07:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (localhost [::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by stereo.hq.phicoh.net with esmtp (TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305) (Smail #158) id m1uCItL-0000LTC; Tue, 6 May 2025 16:03:27 +0200
Message-Id: <m1uCItL-0000LTC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
To: dnsop@ietf.org
From: Philip Homburg <pch-dnsop-6@u-1.phicoh.com>
Sender: pch-b6CAFA0C7@u-1.phicoh.com
References: <1C9E8ABA-4399-491B-A9F4-D9ACCB1BA72C@virtualized.org> <866409E5-0D9A-4669-8C6E-C9D1C7BDAA21@dnss.ec> <SA1PR15MB4370BAE2BD669193DDB9AE44B38D2@SA1PR15MB4370.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> <20250502171756.5AC67C762C3C@ary.qy> <SA1PR15MB43704113DF8B19A8A5A66AD6B38D2@SA1PR15MB4370.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> <4B83E121-9562-449C-A00E-2A31894ADED0@icann.org> <m1uBDWf-0000MlC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <9EE8E4CC-04A3-46C7-BDDF-EF538A822AA8@virtualized.org> <m1uBHRs-0000LsC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <BE3A5560-740A-47A9-835B-8C8EEF2B50B9@virtualized.org> <m1uCDdk-0000LlC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <20250506133721.199BCC803209@ary.qy>
In-reply-to: Your message of "6 May 2025 09:37:20 -0400 ." <20250506133721.199BCC803209@ary.qy>
Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 16:03:26 +0200
Message-ID-Hash: WYL4PMKZNM3QVV237IAFFBWBKP36KGOL
X-Message-ID-Hash: WYL4PMKZNM3QVV237IAFFBWBKP36KGOL
X-MailFrom: pch-b6CAFA0C7@u-1.phicoh.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-dnsop.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [DNSOP] Re: what problem are we trying to solve, was Call for Adoption: draft-davies-internal-tld
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/-SxW8bQITV3hb6wduZVIGDR4bWs>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:dnsop-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:dnsop-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:dnsop-leave@ietf.org>

>I'd flip it around. If we think it is important that DNSSEC works if you have
>subtrees with local anchors or no anchors, we should work on that. Saying "add
>blah to the root because I think that will keep some validators from returning
>errors" isn't it.

Adding an insecure delegation is a good way to tell validators that there is
going to be an insecure zone. It is a practical mechanism that is proven to
work.

I have no clue how to design a protocol where a mobile device can attach
to an unknown network and get (negative) trust anchors without potentially
compromising the entire security of DNSSEC.

If you have an idea what such a protocol could look like, maybe you can share
it.