Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3.
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 22 February 2010 04:11 UTC
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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:13:28 -0800
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
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Cc: dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, John Dickinson <jad@sinodun.com>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3.
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On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote: > > In message <315AD36E-879A-4512-A6A8-B64372E3D3CF@sinodun.com>, John Dickinson w > rites: >> Hi, >> >> It might also be worth adding a line at the start reminding of the need for N >> SEC and NSEC3 - namely that the signing and serving of the zone are separate >> operations and that it is therefore necessry to create records that cover the >> very large number of non-existent names that lie between the names that do e >> xist. >> >> NSEC and NSEC3 are just different ways to achieve this goal and some people m >> ight prefer one above the other. One is NOT better than the other and it is a >> matter of operational needs that determine which one you select. >> >> It may also be worth removing the mention of cryptographic operations. The ha >> shing in NSEC3 is just a way to create new names that cover the same spaces. >> I imagine that many other schemes could have been dreamt up to do this. Hashi >> ng is just a convenient method. >> >> John > > Actually NSEC is technically better at proving non-existance. NSEC3 > has a non zero false positive rate due to the fact that the names > are hashed. NSEC has a zero false positive rate. > > This is not to say the false positive rate is high enough to stop > using NSEC3, but that it needs to be acknowledged. Unless I'm misreading the specifications, unless you're using an extremely poor or short hash function, the probability of false positive is vanishingly small (order 2^{-100}). This shouldn't be acknowledged, but rather should be ignored. Moreover, it appears that NSEC3 has a mechanism for dealing with it in S C.2.1 (pointless, IMO...) So, I don't see what the issue is. -Ekr
- [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01… Internet-Drafts
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bi… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bi… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bi… Florian Weimer
- [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Shane Kerr
- [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Chris Thompson
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Jelte Jansen
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes bmanning
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Peter Koch
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Francis Dupont
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Richard Lamb
- Re: [DNSOP] HSMs was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dn… Paul Wouters
- [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Matt Larson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. bmanning
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Todd Glassey
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. John Dickinson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Eric Rescorla
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Matt Larson
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Eric Rescorla
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Todd Glassey
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Eric Rescorla
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Eric Rescorla
- [DNSOP] threads having "jumped the shark" was Re:… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Eric Rescorla
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Alex Bligh
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Todd Glassey
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Roy Arends
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] rfc4641bis: NSEC vs NSEC3. Doug Barton