Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List

Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> Tue, 10 June 2008 11:14 UTC

Return-Path: <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsop-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636B63A6934; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478D13A6934 for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.17
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.17 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.571, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CB7e6w2sVVIY for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail2.shareable.org (mail2.shareable.org [80.68.89.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5063A3A6918 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jamie by mail2.shareable.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jamie@shareable.org>) id 1K61oV-0007CG-52; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:55 +0100
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:55 +0100
From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <20080610111454.GE25910@shareable.org>
References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org> <484D1533.4060300@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <484D1883.4060002@mozilla.org> <666CCACE-71F0-485D-9C9F-0C3E0C965ADA@virtualized.org> <484D52EC.1090608@mozilla.org> <C5894EBB-D4AA-40AD-8A38-2F4CD8A07D66@virtualized.org> <484D5B88.3090902@mozilla.org> <9C47AC3F-A0EA-48BB-9B28-DFD2C4855EB3@virtualized.org> <484E52F4.5030402@mozilla.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <484E52F4.5030402@mozilla.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/dnsop>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org

Gervase Markham wrote:
> - "No, sorry, you can't do any of the things for which you might want
> this data"
> 
> - "It's fine to want this data, but you should get it via this
> alternative method:..."

I'm inclined to suggest: Gather and hard-code your list into Firefox,
and also provide a mechanism by which domain authorities can publish
information which overrides your list for their domain.

E.g. When evaluating online.myservice.free.fr, Firefox could look up
DNS records for online.myservice.free.fr, myservice.free.fr, free.fr
and .fr (in that order), and if there's a record use that.  If not,
use the hard-coded information you have gathered for that domain.

In this case, you would expect, eventually, that free.fr may publish a
record indicating that $NAME.free.fr are independent adminstratives
entities, and that's the first record you'll fine.

One day, someone creates dyndns.littleisp.free.fr, and lets people
register themselves underneath that domain.  (Such as
littlecustomer.dyndns.littleisp.free.fr).  Then, instead of contacting
you and trying to get their information into your next Firefox update,
they would simply publish a DNS record on dyndns.littleisp.free.fr,
and the information would be live immediately.  Not just for Firefox,
but for any web client which adopts the same scheme.

(By the way, alFrom dnsop-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Jun 10 04:14:42 2008
Return-Path: <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsop-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636B63A6934;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478D13A6934
	for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>om>; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.17
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.17 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.571, 
	BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id CB7e6w2sVVIY for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>om>;
	Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail2.shareable.org (mail2.shareable.org [80.68.89.115])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5063A3A6918
	for <dnsop@ietf.org>rg>; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jamie by mail2.shareable.org with local (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <jamie@shareable.org>)
	id 1K61oV-0007CG-52; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:55 +0100
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:55 +0100
From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <20080610111454.GE25910@shareable.org>
References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org>
	<484D1533.4060300@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com>
	<484D1883.4060002@mozilla.org>
	<666CCACE-71F0-485D-9C9F-0C3E0C965ADA@virtualized.org>
	<484D52EC.1090608@mozilla.org>
	<C5894EBB-D4AA-40AD-8A38-2F4CD8A07D66@virtualized.org>
	<484D5B88.3090902@mozilla.org>
	<9C47AC3F-A0EA-48BB-9B28-DFD2C4855EB3@virtualized.org>
	<484E52F4.5030402@mozilla.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <484E52F4.5030402@mozilla.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>rg>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>,
	<mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/dnsop>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>,
	<mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org

Gervase Markham wrote:
> - "No, sorry, you can't do any of the things for which you might want
> this data"
> 
> - "It's fine to want this data, but you should get it via this
> alternative method:..."

I'm inclined to suggest: Gather and hard-code your list into Firefox,
and also provide a mechanism by which domain authorities can publish
information which overrides your list for their domain.

E.g. When evaluating online.myservice.free.fr, Firefox could look up
DNS records for online.myservice.free.fr, myservice.free.fr, free.fr
and .fr (in that order), and if there's a record use that.  If not,
use the hard-coded information you have gathered for that domain.

In this case, you would expect, eventually, that free.fr may publish a
record indicating that $NAME.free.fr are independent adminstratives
entities, and that's the first record you'll fine.

One day, someone creates dyndns.littleisp.free.fr, and lets people
register themselves underneath that domain.  (Such as
littlecustomer.dyndns.littleisp.free.fr).  Then, instead of contacting
you and trying to get their information into your next Firefox update,
they would simply publish a DNS record on dyndns.littleisp.free.fr,
and the information would be live immediately.  Not just for Firefox,
but for any web client which adopts the same scheme.

(By the way, although we're talking about administrative divides in
the DNS tree, a little thought might be given to administrative
divides in URL trees.  There are a fair number of sites containing
http://domain.com/user1/* and http://domain.com/user2/*, where those
prefixes indicates separately administered URL spaces.  Do similar
cookie issues apply?  Should a mechanism for publishing details of
administrative divides include URL spaces for the same reasons?)

-- Jamie
_______________________________________________
DNSOP mailing list
DNSOP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop


though we're talking about administrative divides in
the DNS tree, a little thought might be given to administrative
divides in URL trees.  There are a fair number of sites containing
http://domain.com/user1/* and http://domain.com/user2/*, where those
prefixes indicates separately administered URL spaces.  Do similar
cookie issues apply?  Should a mechanism for publishing details of
administrative divides include URL spaces for the same reasons?)

-- Jamie
_______________________________________________
DNSOP mailing list
DNSOP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop