From nobody Sat Jul 23 04:36:01 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA822C13C22F for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 04:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=posteo.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hu8Wd0x0SnuO for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 04:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout01.posteo.de (mout01.posteo.de [185.67.36.65]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC22AC13C22D for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 04:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E89E3240026 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:35:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1658576152; bh=Lv5mSA2zWEjWpfjTpOIDnhs1/bOu16fqtcs+pIHNOEI=; h=Subject:From:Date:Cc:To:From; b=LXpfV+EBReqwVjxIWjJd+GljW0z684UZmXEuzlTaMCFIzolNEiN43bakDrjacoStD 7AzeK0xKatLNy7CFr7ZObuJ1HrTNoLwL1DYvG1CkjdnjfnNW73QMEK1ImNTSkG896s X8dzVEJTlbo6JcIyBwdJuiOiApTGP3wMT7Vxcut4/hl25z2YdGu+iLL4I1y6Ms4TC8 UjiQ7RVZ+1Y5NTxn3uH244RHT5YKsNnoQGrk74VhRRLcUwtu00dmN5CELQ82dfiaEM QlTQDukObmnDp1oSNHwj/D5vRYVSu5N5HoqdsnapL2jrCWSJJoSeZxCD+6Y6lojjsA VdEinEcFnH0/g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4LqklC17kjz9rxX; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:35:51 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8C12F6A3-9EDF-449D-823C-B2562AC248B7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) From: "Schanzenbach, Martin" In-Reply-To: <2699d4a1-820b-05fe-502e-238a9a8c9db0@nthpermutation.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 11:35:46 +0000 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Message-Id: References: <165519310959.42189.8914153387540910631@ietfa.amsl.com> <2699d4a1-820b-05fe-502e-238a9a8c9db0@nthpermutation.com> To: Michael StJohns Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-15.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 11:36:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8C12F6A3-9EDF-449D-823C-B2562AC248B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, FWIW our draft [1] which is currently in IESG conflict review is related = to this "issue". Namely, the question of namespace ambiguity is discussed in it [2] as we = were unable to register a Special-Use TLD in the past [3] (as some of = you may remember). There already have been discussions with the ISE regarding this property = as well. We currently see three options for our draft: 1. Leave it as is since it is an "informational" document and describes = the current implementation, possibly leading to a negative conflict = review response (?). 2. Use a special-use TLD (which would need to be requested again as per = RFC 6761 with uncertain outcome). 3. Use this approach although I am not particularly happy with the lack = of a registry for the labels beneath ALT and the resulting length of the = names. To me, the purpose of this draft is a bit unclear if RFC6761 exists and = can be followed and (at least in theory) we could just have special-use = TLDs for alternative name systems (see 2.). OTOH, although possibly a bit of sacrilege here, maybe it is also a = chance to think about a "DNS-NG". New alternative name systems may be specified and tested without a hard = requirement on sub-namespaces, but a soft-requirement for namespace = unambiguity within their deployments. Because possibly/eventually they may be able to replace the current DNS = and resolve its names. For our draft, the question is if a special TLD must/should be specified = along with the protocol specification or if we can just discuss = namespace ambiguity and possibly use a "temporary" deployment and = testing namespace (e.g. "gns.alt" or "whatever you want but beware the = DNS dragons"). BR Martin [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schanzen-gns/ [2] = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-schanzen-gns-19.html#name-namespace-= ambiguity [3] = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-grothoff-iesg-special-use-p2p-= names-04 > On 27. Jun 2022, at 22:29, Michael StJohns = wrote: >=20 > It's either time to put a stake through the heart of this DNS vampire = that rises from the grave every 6 months, or to push it for publication. = Given that in 8 years it has yet to gain enough traction for = publication, perhaps we de-adopt the draft back into the caring hands of = its author? E.g. - back to draft-kumari-something. Or contribute to = some flowers for a final burial? >=20 > In any event, having looked at this for the first time thanks to the = announcement, and reading the proposed use, why isn't this reserving = something like "%ALT" or some other string containing an illegal DNS = character? >=20 > Later, Mike >=20 >=20 > On 6/14/2022 3:51 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations WG of = the IETF. >>=20 >> Title : The ALT Special Use Top Level Domain >> Author : Warren Kumari >> Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-15.txt >> Pages : 11 >> Date : 2022-06-14 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> This document reserves a string (ALT) to be used as a TLD label in >> non-DNS contexts. It also provides advice and guidance to = developers >> developing alternative namespaces. >>=20 >> [Ed note: Text inside square brackets ([]) is additional = background >> information, answers to frequently asked questions, general = musings, >> etc. They will be removed before publication. This document is >> being collaborated on in Github at: = https://github.com/wkumari/draft- >> wkumari-dnsop-alt-tld. The most recent version of the document, = open >> issues, etc should all be available here. The authors = (gratefully) >> accept pull requests. ] >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld/ >>=20 >> There is also an htmlized version available at: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-15 >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-15 >>=20 >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at = rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >=20 --Apple-Mail=_8C12F6A3-9EDF-449D-823C-B2562AC248B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEPREGPBD5jRS9JNFHCwmY74b1m2oFAmLb3RIACgkQCwmY74b1 m2oAghAAjmpzipPqxBJCBMrk/+qCchNBD6vjH6EW7d6P9ncapNwD3yxeliiY9lzH kkJ5t3rQpVwjN6StrGSWjrQw3LmBNFLzvp06egVJp76Wx2+nIXDx5fLVhvXKp8zx i9xSwUA41k7uME6p0ibHMD3ZQ7xZlarsSnJh23hiJi7P12X7pl/T30pg+5j7SYxk 1sEuwKo7MbxQrRmc7U2jETQ6UavTeTvdINpibQJ3FUIogRzdcDok3zGse5tHDqGD cNrY23uirZR/aqVHQ6zw6nhn01nRKBfVepbAhzOAFxQnLMrGhPwc3hepgc3DiVTc i1GHj5Q1joWZSD4xowf4KVy/NKhM02JADaS15GL284k+KL5UG/X3JSF2ysUB7BQg exW7hrglnbPbegPMNwalYjSdIRHwE3m6Zo8tdQoPmoTXo16+K4A+Pz8zGyV3KL1S iKJJBmyjKy0o1o8yp+FnzMoHXWPxJ8wxuBrXV0L1oncKU3FiXjDDKHLPg6Cu6AHU Xm5cOtXe1sA55+vL73q3G5d42HT3BVbX4n4DGSLKELsTalnxDoZHMpyhpx1+1Wfg l1lHhS190m1LHFToYVo58PcVd6vaWI7dScWLQMNi2Hm8ShCDyPKmuwKg7iJDWpxw W1XvZJwULx5JTR7e+sFaGE2zJsA9qdJIbLC/kRpFuWHzRvhjL6k= =MyNQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8C12F6A3-9EDF-449D-823C-B2562AC248B7--