Re: [DNSOP] HTTPS/SVCB on Cloudflare DNS

Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> Thu, 23 July 2020 09:35 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF113A0822 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:35:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GTAlDQPyrB29 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F1BF3A0B18 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id u6so1589651uau.8 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aLze9P/+0Qtif9vqMErf2xWH0HKAbEkvyKJPUmphocc=; b=GS1MM5452VJljHCXy4YjA2PITsowCTNjyZ7HgFjszwtR3mxW1l/2kCA0QQotQ6cswR aqo+8cyBngLEN5gd9Rk0AxA7YJ0CZ7vc+fzTrvm/J88ZjdfAx4GBjjzAf9GTUXb6VsyJ 7n9aEsNGnFszecicGL072bCKwqfyePNx1g35kv6CFktfqoG++y9xF5jyHTAiGTpHy/Wo 1M6qittnBQRpIKctDutB8E6nu9XMHkilWgrPG1x8j523NvtC/9jATWB3mdZS5HVqgXf5 18hxOWYbwypoUu4Fwe9yLjJ1B8sOSSeajKKiFO7xRaIb8V+vuSHXJK3jEDZp6Bjg/y8S aELw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aLze9P/+0Qtif9vqMErf2xWH0HKAbEkvyKJPUmphocc=; b=EypPRTEdlKzIOtyL5Nsve1OqrCKyyP7MAOGr5VqW4O9aorbKp0x+bs4ZDUKU5DfE2X n1WhzB8qod2uwWMWQoADtagL2NCzpL2F4YUlfLYcOrJdacqDnP+P/Yl7Fu1naWhMuhWC rfV4LLbVhvBni1pTKy3ug6kJ9ywGyT26TE2HtJQUFWAV44EgXzLAPh5XaGX2gmem03gw Dpvv/1jj5xAZVk9Um7Dj8NxUiIt1tiUBhWvc6i2oWf4l6dNmVId6VQMURjRS1ZedlWIP frOuC8KtjbQX43tvRRojHdsUL/jV0SieJ49FVWy8pd7cXgCV/CEiULwkzagTGUTl1mIc JtwQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532/8enT1iYAPCMI9dpWZm0d9EtJPalL08RyiTHAz2uvvbimL8Jj ppOnixw3T59lVUvVz04pqKS99imXgaM0FR4M4PjGjckZ
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxUzwHbcIkVxFxIkCjYiPB+aJJKuol4d0LjF7FOv9lYJ+SvkwPgPMGEqEFcZtNkxWSBKE6qXgYh9Ar19Wqu5hE=
X-Received: by 2002:ab0:48c8:: with SMTP id y8mr3134589uac.114.1595496910195; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20200716151356.GA60024@wakko.flat11.house> <9975DA88-525A-4FC3-9517-70E128A4776D@akamai.com> <099D8D6A-FBBD-4A5A-B1A9-C67CF83DD3DF@apple.com> <E5679D36-1C01-4534-BDFA-836B1FD5A33D@akamai.com> <CAHbrMsDWwahCWoDtQRHQOb5ThGZHuVaOU+e3zkd=H-CZF1s3wg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHbrMsDWwahCWoDtQRHQOb5ThGZHuVaOU+e3zkd=H-CZF1s3wg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:34:59 -0700
Message-ID: <CAH1iCioHPzriG3axGeiTfvbKGYv0BnKRgtvWMtAFe3wTRWgOJA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ben Schwartz <bemasc=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "Wellington, Brian" <bwelling=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "dnsop@ietf.org" <dnsop@ietf.org>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alessandro Ghedini <alessandro@ghedini.me>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000928f8605ab1892ba"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/4_3GWndLrTcdXwndEsxzoxFFVcA>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] HTTPS/SVCB on Cloudflare DNS
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 09:35:13 -0000

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:41 PM Ben Schwartz <bemasc=
40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 9:20 PM Wellington, Brian <bwelling=
> 40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> ok.  So, what this means is that keys listed in the “mandatory” parameter
>> must be included as parameters, and are required to be understood by
>> clients.  The set of “automatically mandatory” keys are required to be
>> understood by clients, but are not required in the RR.
>>
>
> From the client's perspective, "mandatory" means "if you don't understand
> all of these keys, discard the RR".  Each key on the list is "mandatory" in
> the sense that it conveys information that is required to make correct use
> of the RR.  All other keys are optional: they can be ignored and the RR
> will still "work" for connection establishment.
>
> "Automatically mandatory" means "this key is mandatory if it is present".
>
> If you can think of a clearer presentation, please send text!
>

Definitions to use:
Required: Must be present, and implies Mandatory to Implement. (Having a
Required element that wasn't MTI would be silly.)
Mandatory to Implement: exactly what it says.
Optional: Neither Required nor MTI.

Mandatory should only ever be used as MTI, otherwise it leads to confusion
(i.e. needing subordinate phrase to disambiguate, e.g. mandatory to
implement vs mandatory to include.)

Then have a table of key names, and which kind they are (Req, MTI, Opt).

That should clear it up, I think.

Brian