IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [DNSOP] "flagday" again, was Re: Wrapping up draft-ietf-dnsop-dns-tcp-requirements

Petr Špaček <petr.spacek@nic.cz> Tue, 02 July 2019 05:44 UTC

Return-Path: <petr.spacek@nic.cz>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC391200B2 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 22:44:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.996
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id veBw5sW4wNXS for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 22:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 372F91200A4 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 22:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pc-cznic19.fit.vutbr.cz (cz4.datarail.eu [77.93.192.42]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1BFD2140ABD for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:44:54 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1562046294; bh=P9GkCMa2A30IU4HFbVP7j6dWKak05Jp6Ndhso+uJHSM=; h=To:From:Date; b=yAfRu5nmYAx9PmxDGA+qN491TTmgphOmaEKrXU5sfAF/5B9xYN9G5AW9E9kkCyr5h W2c3tuto2wSlSCf+2Klbt3Hj2Sw5SIK9MUsDon5+Ec9x2Ix4EQ3EEFKmeGD7SQOnfo wtE/Tx0oHmnRPIwNgjeolpjktAYhBfOuPEPUWjJM=
To: dnsop@ietf.org
References: <20190625101020.3c601691@p50.localdomain> <cdb97d93-4480-08eb-436b-574fe22c4981@nic.cz> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1907011349190.28830@bofh.nohats.ca> <15467755.7jdABhfuui@linux-9daj>
From: Petr Špaček <petr.spacek@nic.cz>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=petr.spacek@nic.cz; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFhri/0BEADByTMkvpHcvPYwyhy0IDQ1B2+uU6AWP0QJQB3upM/YqxoJBeMQ5SxpO+W6 BsU0hTIF90AKIgiiDtMH1oNhHnzRXqePKORIgL3BbH5OxGcbqCYk1fIKk43DliCN1RcbTyRV REnCRQGWMTUbRS/jQ3uyTAX4rT0NhPWhPy6TMLGEg6WJJz0IzhBEw3TitvAlq6XHbi5EZYwU AHqIcuqr3sS+qkWqlIBlahu1hqhTcmYGz7ihjnWkOFi1rjRfLfudAtgFpUSmsixh2tifdy+C d8OBQbtF2kM7V1X5dUzw/nUBXm1Qex2qohRmCspwqivu7nlDMrLoilmPaeoR5evr5hpIDdfP cJAPTJk4n56q6MTHFJWkGa0yq13AJHLANNjQ/dF+W6Dhw9w2KBpuw0iGZQBBf5G9SQ1xJ+tU 9filaldsTAX1gMkVso//kGEbuRIJnJr7Z8foE/zofFyoAv21VWy2vpgQ3CnEWOZMSmYH7/gZ qcM7nfkjk4zAijpjYA3qlXoWa44/nrkAGvt7sAMsxY1C2H7tr3h3/rwyfbBqQ9nMpNwYLXXa Dil7uzyqlpKDjwWCzYd3sH7ATyT4htrd0BY5+IFimSfHyLwixhakH8E14YYyV9tzkrB7fiWd g7+zDThLtZMvtrehtkjVDPT50xg8TMr68hd3GRWBUJHszMTnlQARAQABtCBQZXRyIFNwYWNl ayA8cGV0ci5zcGFjZWtAbmljLmN6PokCVAQTAQgAPgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIe AQIXgBYhBL4m67nL4FmzkQyjW86N1qGlCiHkBQJcEOXhBQkFp4LgAAoJEM6N1qGlCiHkxNwQ ALFyQ7Rrghf0rM9GN2+kgP92Qvot21h8/Je3bRTvoLyhYUXcAMRmODZQ/0EsjExFc+pRwn+E 0GD2TpiorDnRMpJYEmHqenYGIrZ5TE0lHwwu0fi/X3evDY4j68OFlim5Q6+7pHOlZWaRsSm5 T6blSwIaNDFYtBhI0X1ZXTGqbXIUBFuGxolo/xEgUkeDy+6D4R8yT17CTHkuGYYrfUYnoBTr j3xMVil/lNMievaklAL8kRNVl0It4M8VzHTyEdMq7pG0CJ0CfU8COizCsu4+zy8dsxMVE0Su hju05LSsClZ9X1csxSK9HjKq+TG1Hx2qciFHRB1qC2mNIvWTm10Gkj4tLTWcJp3k2Wyv+1K2 sLFxreGOwbx0uR7XtIIBTiiZAiVsjBH0D39qG2ZLz+bJkQvlTDZQuXzsMS51wROvTVxPYcXX p069hON2+/QqJasmpOHhOydGkB3uokA0crqvMOnK+EcueKQQspvdLGiFLefJPuM8VVyR9fFZ YjnX2vfGZbE+MxY8wG4mDbhgxsUORAEtNUH/G0dvTv66fzKpl5q9GIZs7el+1IU31w7KivgS 7fsWcOsdzq4KzZzNBRJtEDoxX4b9lQ8P6ttMlPi7PnQ+iN0OUxKSnAnKQiqKMFRO1zH22vn7 iiF4JMO32//0HcpsyV8oEdjDkSJsFRnDfLW2uQINBFhri/0BEADFp4ZfxSoKTAad0IkFK9CV oZ6XKywYLFNPPhzw++gbvHL2EX7QqhEsqbsWMYpH4jc/Kq55OYYU/lIcULuD0Y9oDR26XFQo u0FeSNnzRGb607U8OFOPQ+ei92Mm1YPQ33GPj8GqbQpkAp35sfjJ64TH/EQY38RN33jsHRkh wtWU/6yo+RZs7cFRuihuLl8FuoP0A5u/x+lNNeIBk8f27LVYrF81NSDDDYjnObCah+QLzGAw GDtjWkBVawpoHWwq58OQSx5piwyOCnFJeFONRcTRgOz239rsEA5LeYfmOGcnNwG6CHoJ5ZdW Jw5OV9BoA7UTHG95xVHV5QiEm6q6igI6wKV2RtFS7Roe0Wt8H7gC41JeqaKTUsGkz6uJraF8 mmKyS8E+mSh3djmqdJNHF1pJqKxAxPYA9Y0jPnYWeEH4fPeOR2YvBjztsye9nOv1AuKNu03d uzocyU95DfP/lwNJr5SH918Vf1t7WcJj9dg6J9Jc5LOwg13Qr31TuZijrMdqM7LJKC/0tOkS eXNoMlHJOIqbqm7N414I0HytbENf7AiyDxNA5TzJKkB0eBPLm2FMQCHLfasJHgbCrQut6nYw 3f3Gn3+PDzGEHI9sfQv/mYvO77oRSGw+3Hy1ToxIncIirAyRpa5KdPLklDpADvpfkXjuL6If ZZ0OIWKLSRa/DQARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmAhsMFiEEvibrucvgWbORDKNbzo3WoaUKIeQFAlwQ 5fcFCQWngvoACgkQzo3WoaUKIeTg+w/9Gyp5EcB4AoR3vKVxP0SAh1zBher3bh9uGaKTAWt0 +0v8fyZYGEPqZr//9rkodPnXbQnr9ogzjJmZpsPvGPyRZikWjYIwkfM2Vb4BCyr5wQ9++9KB kob5zCQmUw2o7s/gISpFsCC5B0eYusArVDnrCyrroyaxbN6MpUb5lzVMEOCzYljtdrPRAXPL FKRm3ijLV0RcYPzJJVOPV5EzUfCtGsGTXXRI9Y9O/7lFaJ+iWnwygo/Xoi0IgBHvOAj9Gp3Q 0BY+sI6Rgzm9dbddm8gYJ4+FjfZivI7fbdfSubTWvrtFmFdHovIPJYLvXK7hUG22ww4CneIF D4oZSVy9xUoqJf0qQNruzEqTr7y7lbZIzxgPCSVmH0jpgJ1po6RLaJllNA+ZklOQ76fCMiaD 5yQuJluwD5w+acPWTbmZX6DijGHPZSjzeUkiMKctYSRqVUo6JmK0dgwwm3l1/Orb4D3YsLVP QDa4ZrCfSldrGC3zkEJ8iCVSYQwlc0JfIxyn8C3LLxToPYeFv/bQTeDYBjaV7a0SQ/xKUdpg RFzrGrxj7CM2WHcpxCLVK0agobuUO7YXoufHRM6y0rfMwT10baDjh+hLKMshxTqsP55lWvtM SleSGjheVTiZChb3jK0rUPCC4Rg3gDTEQsptC3TgN48PtLpmhsNc4JPm64zlrreInZQ=
Organization: CZ.NIC
Message-ID: <c7d0a3df-68ea-bafa-f43b-e373fa791a58@nic.cz>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:46:13 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <15467755.7jdABhfuui@linux-9daj>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: cs
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/5QI-puA0jXAYHLO-o2bzwULksRQ>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] "flagday" again, was Re: Wrapping up draft-ietf-dnsop-dns-tcp-requirements
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 05:44:59 -0000

On 01. 07. 19 22:21, Paul Vixie wrote:
> On Monday, 1 July 2019 18:00:09 UTC Paul Wouters wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, Petr Špaček wrote:
>>
>> [broken record on]
>>
>>> ...
>>
>> The internet does not do "flag days". Please stop calling it flag days.
>> ...
> 
> "flag day" is a power word. the organizers of the 2019 event have tasted 
> power, and evidently now intend to continue exercising that power.
> 
> noting, the 2020 event should limit itself to mandating tcp support, and not 
> get involved with fragmentation at all. ideally tcp/853 (DOT) support.

Let me clarify that we (as DNS flag day organizers) are not even
touching any RFC language because all the necessary pieces are already
standardized (madatory TCP support + mechanism to handle EDNS buffer size).

Some people claim that IETF cannot put requirements on operators, only
on implementations. We (as software and service vendors) are now saying
"if you want to interoperate, you as an operator have to follow
standards mandated for implementations", because in the end, what's
mandated for implementation does not matter if operators ignore these
requirements.

Of course it has to be explained to non-IETFers in many more words to
eliminate requirement to read all the RFCs, but that's it.

Changing default EDNS buffer size is, I believe, in competency of
individual implementations, so we as implementors will do a thing we
deem sensible.

Let's continue discussion about dns flag day 2020 at mailing list
dns-operations@lists.dns-oarc.net, please.

-- 
Petr Špaček  @  CZ.NIC

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email