Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-pusateri-dnsop-update-timeout-00.txt

Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Sat, 25 August 2018 14:30 UTC

Return-Path: <marka@isc.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BAE0126BED for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 07:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zh5qM0ax-LZg for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 07:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [149.20.64.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2501124BE5 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 07:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 482BF3AB03B; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:34 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0957416003A; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:34 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCF9160044; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:33 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id lzTi30FvZV-N; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:33 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [172.30.42.88] (c27-253-115-14.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [27.253.115.14]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65BC016003A; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:32 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B9DCD40F-1C76-4627-86A7-D7C5A2FAFC51
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77)
In-Reply-To: <CAPt1N1kp8Tg5tWEiDCMuMNTmehRsBSkkC1=u+RcvkG6ZCegE-g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 00:30:29 +1000
Cc: Tom Pusateri <pusateri@bangj.com>, dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <977DF12E-178B-4500-B045-F27BF1CDF51C@isc.org>
References: <153507165910.12116.7113196606839876181.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <AFB90F6F-5D99-4403-AAB6-1123727973E6@bangj.com> <5B7F5E07.5080100@redbarn.org> <7F91FFF7-71C3-4F8E-82CD-266B170983E0@bangj.com> <C0EE2719-B662-4231-AF51-D3B98B00AD0D@fugue.com> <6D607922-393D-4549-AAFA-49279C260CA4@bangj.com> <3C6100BD-62D6-41ED-B7BF-679F0D4E4113@fugue.com> <5063A32B-4877-4860-BA73-CCB068AB7FCB@bangj.com> <CAPt1N1=tXZNgT6ygAaLFfOMze7hbGZ6q_eN1C3iEo9ryBNcyLg@mail.gmail.com> <98EF2CAC-7C13-4E68-8D2B-EC0659EA9646@bangj.com> <CAPt1N1kFNY4=CUMsTvXmeRREeLAkY8xpBdw4vPDxujgke6QT8A@mail.gmail.com> <963460AA-14BB-44AA-87CA-7F09A707DB5D@bangj.com> <47AE41F8-9F5F-4CC8-B4F0-7E8191011E99@bangj.com> <F4335D3A-0241-437F-A428-8EA95F0A1C18@fugue.com> <56E8B2A6-7B65-4D25-B102-9EFA7E2CBE7B@bangj.com> <86D465A4-F390-4370-83EC-0E72FBE115BE@isc.org> <CAPt1N1=xy+JAtgvvF_+9LiTiefbpTy_Vd0b8gswozA1K1C57Nw@mail.gmail.com> <99FA0B76-D225-45FC-A33C-B65E2673A45E@isc.org> <CAPt1N1kp8Tg5tWEiDCMuMNTmehRsBSkkC1=u+RcvkG6ZCeg E-g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/5WTb7TJhc5E4sHq1vHD4Ju6-cRM>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-pusateri-dnsop-update-timeout-00.txt
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:30:39 -0000

It avoids leaving dangling records published longer than necessary.

Network dies so the machine can’t do the cleanup it was intending.

Last second cleanup as the lid closes doesn’t get through. 

It’s relatively easy to implement, no more difficult than resigning for DNSSEC at the cost of a small amount of space.  It also transfers the necessary state to all the slaves allowing them to take over if the master server fails presuming they have the keying material for DNSSEC. 

-- 
Mark Andrews

> On 25 Aug 2018, at 22:53, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>; wrote:
> 
> I'm not saying nobody does it.   I'm trying to understand how this helps.
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:24 PM Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>; wrote:
>> Ted stop being daft. People have been registering addresses of machines in the public DNS for decades.   SLAAC. Is just one source of addresses. DHCP is another. Come up with a third method and they will do it with it. 
>> 
>> Also DHCP servers from ISPs don’t have authority to update DNS servers for my machines. Only those machines have such authority so don’t discount DHCP derived addresses. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Andrews
>> 
>>> On 25 Aug 2018, at 12:53, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>; wrote:
>>> 
>>> When would that happen?
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:52 PM Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>; wrote:
>>>> Registering slaac derived addresses in the DNS.  These are tied to prefix lifetimes. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mark Andrews
>>>> 
>>>>> On 25 Aug 2018, at 05:02, Tom Pusateri <pusateri@bangj.com>; wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2018, at 2:59 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>; wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2018, at 2:43 PM, Tom Pusateri <pusateri@bangj.com>; wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems odd to take the position that the authoritative server shouldn’t need to clean up stale entries because it assumes the client will do it for you. I can’t imagine you taking this position under any other scenario.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The issue here is that this is a pretty major change to the DNS.   If we really want something this heavy, we should have a good reason for wanting it.   That's all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The idea that some unnamed DHCP server somewhere doesn't do the right thing with cleaning up stale entries doesn't seem like a good enough reason, particularly given that the DHCID record tags the thing as having been added by the DHCP server, and considering that there are several open source implementations that do automatically delete records when the lease expires.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think it might make sense to just wait on this.  I agree that it's an interesting idea for completeness, but we don't have enough operational experience yet to know whether we have a problem worth solving.   With respect to the DHCP use case, I'm certain we don't.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The good news is that if we do need this, you've done a design, and we also have Paul's design to look at.   So if operational experience a few years down the road shows us that we have a gap here, we can move on it pretty easily. I just don't see any reason to rush into it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, great. Hopefully others have some use cases they can share. In the mean time, back to learning Rust…
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Tom
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> DNSOP mailing list
>>>>> DNSOP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop