Re: [DNSOP] on 'when to implement' (was: Re: Working Group Last Call for: draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel)
Benno Overeinder <benno@NLnetLabs.nl> Wed, 09 May 2018 13:49 UTC
Return-Path: <benno@NLnetLabs.nl>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5CF1242EA
for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 May 2018 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
header.d=nlnetlabs.nl
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id 74_kfegyYlKK for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Wed, 9 May 2018 06:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dicht.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [185.49.140.10])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18B631241FC
for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 May 2018 06:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hydrogen.local (j48230.upc-j.chello.nl [24.132.48.230])
by dicht.nlnetlabs.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 622548375
for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 May 2018 15:49:27 +0200 (CEST)
Authentication-Results: dicht.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl;
s=default; t=1525873767;
bh=T9TL1UrsFZKSvskyCkFjGg4OvnITJsjIqEDFOTIYYb8=;
h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To;
b=Zlyvdr9bgCNXImWhfCibY2VTBcejJvoRMR/CUZWEq9y28437VPt3jYuvNrjfFlpau
jg+2TS/3kA+hMVkErjIZUXUgpXNvWuDSs6nHqbCIqRth1ZcmD1LnLUmKaiy0C40hv+
c1E4h+RsLQEU/0yd5RCV6C7FuzBVRwaY6BfSBSKs=
To: dnsop@ietf.org
References: <CADyWQ+EE9YCCM03wKvd-HefpoQVqhOfeeLKLV8L2LJj+tqmEzA@mail.gmail.com>
<CACWOCC936z-4j8e+d7bvhfr_Mk8tk64tkuiRDTRtrqrBTJBKJw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAHw9_iLgTvPHe5jeL-0QZJ4+cxes8bBpCEULuDKThpjXoKzrbA@mail.gmail.com>
<20180406134501.GC49550@vurt.meerval.net>
<4A943DE7-81BC-41AC-93F7-4EC0975DF6B6@gmail.com>
<CAHw9_iLTJUdTt_YnuC+sw2aNB10iGZ4bbcmOnf4i-y5Zssu0qw@mail.gmail.com>
<20180407062714.GA63728@isc.org>
<09F25B8D-25CA-47C4-B1A1-DA56B86D68F8@isc.org>
<D802B91D-A8DC-4DF7-BF7B-E93E79028BE9@powerdns.com>
From: Benno Overeinder <benno@NLnetLabs.nl>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=benno@NLnetLabs.nl; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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-ID: <0e122460-b78c-be07-7b54-d2d632d6cd49@NLnetLabs.nl>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 15:49:25 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <D802B91D-A8DC-4DF7-BF7B-E93E79028BE9@powerdns.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/7-Q6IM_SXf-FT8FSztbLHSqMgxc>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] on 'when to implement' (was: Re: Working Group Last
Call for: draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel)
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>,
<mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>,
<mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 13:49:31 -0000
Reacting on the "when to implement" part of the subject, and speaking for NLnet Labs. On 08/05/2018 11:11, Peter van Dijk wrote: >> From implementors point, it makes little sense to start implementing >> before the protocol change is almost fully baked (aka WGLC and >> further), because until then the protocol might change considerably. > > It makes little sense to call a protocol change ‘fully baked’ if nobody > has checked that implementation is even possible. I think there is a sweet point when developers start to think of implementing a draft. Not necessarily WGLC, but a stable document is preferred with us at NLnet Labs. (We indicated this also on the mic in the Prague DNSOP WG meeting (or Singapore?) for the kskroll-sentinel draft.) As Ralph Dolmans mentioned in his email on the list (specifically for the kskroll-sentinel draft): "We need a somewhat stable specification before we make code that will be used in the real world to prevent pollution and in this case would make it even harder to do proper measurements." Above is specific for the kskroll-sentinel draft of course, and for other drafts this point for adoption to get a (prototype) implementation can be earlier or later. -- Benno -- Benno J. Overeinder NLnet Labs https://www.nlnetlabs.nl/
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Warren Kumari
- [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ietf-d… tjw ietf
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… tjw ietf
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Peter van Dijk
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… 神明達哉
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… George Michaelson
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Peter van Dijk
- Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for: draft-ie… Ondřej Surý
- [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Geoff Huston
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Ralph Dolmans
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Geoff Huston
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Ondřej Surý
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Job Snijders
- [DNSOP] on 'when to implement' (was: Re: Working … Peter van Dijk
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Joao Damas
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] on 'when to implement' (was: Re: Work… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Job Snijders
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Joao Damas
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-12 神明達哉