Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
SM <sm@resistor.net> Wed, 11 June 2008 20:43 UTC
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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:23 -0700
To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
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Hi Gervase, At 02:15 11-06-2008, Gervase Markham wrote: >They don't have to. Why should TLDs think they have an automatic right >to have Firefox display domains they have issued which allow our users >to be fooled or defrauded? Does that mean that the new Firefox will never display domains that allow its users to be fooled or defrauded? :-) At 04:25 11-06-2008, Gervase Markham wrote: >It's not true that we won't work on any other solution. This is what we >have now, and there have been no alternative proposals which (to my >mind) look like producing anything workable in the short term. If you push aside all the negative views, you won't see any alternative proposals. >Half this list seems to think that getting all the TLDs to agree on or >do anything is an enterprise doomed to failure, and the other half seem That's because there are some people on this list who have attempted that before. >to From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jun 11 13:43:19 2008 Return-Path: <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org> X-Original-To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsop-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECF13A6A8A; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA52C3A6A8A for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.929 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.929 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.570, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PY8Sho+H4g-v for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001713A686B for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subman.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m5BKhYPm001763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1213217023; x=1213303423; bh=9zFeAd1XSVgSr2WRhrYZa0EjJlNL98DVeNhK AaRZ/vA=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To: References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=qM4ydm8UJnwPbsYDitHimZDVis cKQWf+PvY/fxsx5MIyMkLveZBa0Ld0kgjGIZl/G09NCYTwSpkFQvGseYjyZU5aHulF0 1HTytLea8c9Fiqpo0fFHUJ2ylrkgzIvtmFMGAkSjR3SACKpe61tAHVGV+MHJr3Msscy /a0tbQJSf58= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=jRqXMKLz152M9IIEfznvAnAqc0WLZapL8U7vz8HINdiLltZoTbyB/bJux5lodiAy2 KqYeDwLx5Z8FF4fybLcEiYMCgS8K6FbSr9OZ606pyP/kKxOWURKye+bslNy1jfrRbpO kddmn/MgUd1O2IxNoHw5armxTGcL0NJoAP227bk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20080611123836.0332d3e0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:43:23 -0700 To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org> From: SM <sm@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <484F97A7.6020709@mozilla.org> References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0806101207560.5176-100000@citation2.av8.net> <484F97A7.6020709@mozilla.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/dnsop> List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gervase, At 02:15 11-06-2008, Gervase Markham wrote: >They don't have to. Why should TLDs think they have an automatic right >to have Firefox display domains they have issued which allow our users >to be fooled or defrauded? Does that mean that the new Firefox will never display domains that allow its users to be fooled or defrauded? :-) At 04:25 11-06-2008, Gervase Markham wrote: >It's not true that we won't work on any other solution. This is what we >have now, and there have been no alternative proposals which (to my >mind) look like producing anything workable in the short term. If you push aside all the negative views, you won't see any alternative proposals. >Half this list seems to think that getting all the TLDs to agree on or >do anything is an enterprise doomed to failure, and the other half seem That's because there are some people on this list who have attempted that before. >to ththink that we should be waiting for all the TLD operators to agree to >set up their own repositories of the data. There is a contradiction there. Maybe those people are not looking for a short-term fix. By the way, the question of suffix lists has been discussed in other Internet areas before. It's not restricted to cookies only. The fact that nobody pointed you to a RFC suggests that there hasn't been an acceptable solution yet. Quoting RFC 4085: "Products that rely on such embedded IP addresses initially may appear to be convenient to the product's designer and to its operator or user, but this dubious benefit comes at the expense of others in the Internet community." Replace IP addresses with publish suffix and you'll see why your proposal generated so much controversy on this mailing list. Regards, -sm _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ink that we should be waiting for all the TLD operators to agree to >set up their own repositories of the data. There is a contradiction there. Maybe those people are not looking for a short-term fix. By the way, the question of suffix lists has been discussed in other Internet areas before. It's not restricted to cookies only. The fact that nobody pointed you to a RFC suggests that there hasn't been an acceptable solution yet. Quoting RFC 4085: "Products that rely on such embedded IP addresses initially may appear to be convenient to the product's designer and to its operator or user, but this dubious benefit comes at the expense of others in the Internet community." Replace IP addresses with publish suffix and you'll see why your proposal generated so much controversy on this mailing list. Regards, -sm _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
- [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Elmar K. Bins
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Peter Koch
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Kim Davies
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Phil Regnauld
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Adrien de Croy
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jelte Jansen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… bmanning
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List SM
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Niall O'Reilly
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson