[DNSOP] Re: [IPNSIG PWG] Re: [dtn] Re: An Interplanetary DNS Model

[Sivasubramanian M <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, 24 Jul, 2024, 11:07 Sivasubramanian M, <[e-mail]> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 23 Jul, 2024, 02:50 Scott Johnson, <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2024, Ben Schwartz wrote:
>>
>> > This document seems to propose that "https" URLs will route through
>>
>> "route through" is exactly what is not happening here.  https will be
>> secure to the edge of the IP network, which is the limit of the local IP
>> transaction.
>>
>> > gateways that terminate end-to-end security, destroying the "https"
>> > scheme's confidentiality and integrity properties.
>>
>> BPSEC picks up the slack here, as soon as the request details are placed
>> in a bundle for transit of the space network segments.
>> A new https request is created on the remote end from the data in the
>> bundle.
>>
>> End to end IP, particularly to anywhere more remote than the Moon, is a
>> practical impossibility; hence, security measures must be limited in
>> scope
>> to the networks they traverse.
>>
>> > That's a red flag
>> > for me.
>>
>> It would be for me too if what I am proposing were the same as what you
>> are describing.
>>
>> > Rather than trying to retrofit compatibility with existing terrestrial
>> > protocols into this (hypothetical and quite distant) scenario, I think
>> > we would be better served by developing protocols that serve real
>> > demands today, and delaying other technical solutions until real demand
>> > appears.
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback on that.  The truth is, we have most of what we
>> need already for mostly robotic missions.  You may find the 100 year
>> vision of the Interplanetary Chapter of ISOC interesting:
>> https://www.ipnsig.org
>>
>> As to real demand, an intimate knowledge of the players and their
>> capabilities, as well as those proposed specifications for Lunar
>> networks,
>> leads me to conclude that it will be difficult to get this finished and
>> shiny to a stage where it is viable for flight use before it is necessary.
>> True, the demands of Lunar colonization are different than near term
>> needs, but the need for IP networking there had thusfar not been
>> challenged, nor has the need for BP based DTN in some instances, and
>> definitely between terrestrial and Lunar IP networks.
>
>
> Why not ship the A route server
>

(... Root server. Apologies)

to the skies, ask the rest of the alphabets on the ground to mirror it on
> weekends to provide all week DNS route service on the ground, updated, with
> two digit latency? A small part of the A on the sky could also serially
> serve the IPNs, especially those on the sky that don't have an everyday
> need to bounce signals back and forth with the computers on the ground? The
> sky is above ground !
>

>
> We can't have
>> little Timmy in the basement taking over construction machines on the
>> Moon, can we?  If Timmy has no route to the Lunar IP network, this is not
>> an issue.  Meanwhile, we wish to enable a IP native services on the Moon,
>> while allowing viably delay tolerant IP applications best-effort
>> interoperability with terrestrial services.  Given the Adopt, Adapt,
>> Author order of preference in engineering solutions promoted by LOGIC
>> (https://logic.jhuapl.edu) it seems assmebling the lego blocks we
>> already
>> have into a solution, where possible, is the preferred path.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong; If someone offers me a big enough check, I _may_ find
>> something else to do with my time, but for now, I manage to feed my kids
>> with pure research and development like this, so I think I am going to
>> keep at it ;)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> ScottJ
>>
>>
>> >
>> > --Ben
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > From: Nordgren, Bryce - FS, MT
>> > <bryce.l.nordgren=[e-mail]>
>> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2024 3:42 PM
>> > To: Scott Johnson <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>> > <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> > Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>;
>> > [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> > Subject: [DNSOP] Re: [dtn] An Interplanetary DNS Model
>> > Just spitballing, but instead of a new TLD, what about
>> > "{earth,moon,mars}. sol. arpa" as your suffix? This seems like it's
>> > right in the wheelhouse of the "Address Resolution Parameter Area". . .
>> > https: //en. wikipedia. org/wiki/. arpa
>> > Just spitballing, but instead of a new TLD, what about
>> > "{earth,moon,mars}.sol.arpa" as your suffix?
>> >
>> > This seems like it's right in the wheelhouse of the "Address Resolution
>> > Parameter Area"...
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.arpa
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Forest Service Shield
>> >
>> > Bryce Nordgren, FRIT
>> > Physical Scientist
>> >
>> > Forest Service
>> >
>> > Missoula Fire Science Lab
>> >
>> > p: 406-829-6955
>> > c: 406-396-4147
>> > [e-mail]
>> >
>> > 5775 Hwy 10 W
>> > Missoula, MT 59808
>> > www.fs.fed.us
>> > USDA Logo Forest Service Twitter USDA Facebook
>> >
>> > Caring for the land and serving people
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > From: Scott Johnson <[e-mail]>
>> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2024 3:00 AM
>> > To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> > Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>;
>> > [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>> > Subject: [dtn] An Interplanetary DNS Model
>> > Hi Everyone,
>> >
>> > Sorry for the 4-way cross posting, but I wanted to reach all of those
>> > parties who may have interest.
>> >
>> > I have published an internet-draft version of a document I have been
>> > privately publishing, in order that the community may understand, pick
>> > apart, improve, and fill in the blanks.  This is in response to
>> > community
>> > interest and related efforts, in order that we best arrive at a
>> > standardized practice and architecture for Interplanetary Internet
>> > communications.  I welcome and look forward to comments which could
>> > help
>> > us reach this laudable goal.  I am not sure of the exact venue for WG
>> > adoption, given the scope of the concepts.  As such will I refrain from
>> > asking for WG adoption at this time, pending discussion from the DTN
>> > and
>> > DNS communities.
>> >
>> > Please find the draft here:
>> > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata
>> > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-johnson-interplanetary-dns%2F&data=05%
>> > 7C02%7Cbryce.l.nordgren%40usda.gov%7Ca6aa16d3a3434c34031208dcaa2d44ba
>> > %7Ced5b36e701ee4ebc867ee03cfa0d4697%7C1%7C0%7C638572358631001081%7CUn
>> > known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
>> > WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BTPmN%2B7FDxrLZPRDDZZoD6YNKHG1d5
>> > ROtFlDjqZg1Vs%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > I would also be interested in revisiting Marc Blanchet's smtp and http
>> > over BP related drafts in the light of the above document, to see if
>> > adaptation can be made to make these efforts dovetail together.
>> >
>> > Thanks to all,
>> > Scott Johnson
>> > Spacely Packets, LCC
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>>
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>>
>