Re: [DNSOP] Question about usage of ip6.arpa and in-addr.arpa

"Paul Hoffman" <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Tue, 13 March 2018 00:07 UTC

Return-Path: <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D971250B8 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:07:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uc2L6To0ONQw for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31D9E124F57 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.32.60.132] (50-1-51-141.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.141]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w2D06kHv087072 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:06:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 50-1-51-141.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.141] claimed to be [10.32.60.132]
From: "Paul Hoffman" <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
To: "Jim Reid" <jim@rfc1035.com>
Cc: "dnsop WG" <dnsop@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:07:16 -0700
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.10r5443)
Message-ID: <ADC2635D-6C02-44EB-A95C-0656455E5E88@vpnc.org>
In-Reply-To: <F917A3E4-2F87-4670-8370-9DEA2E85D6B2@rfc1035.com>
References: <B7531E71-AC04-4D40-86B0-74F2DCA92446@letsencrypt.org> <0EE4F82D-AD7B-4D50-B415-6B5558B7E974@vpnc.org> <7B867A66-4B80-4070-ACA9-7C94A63FBC17@rfc1035.com> <A111B1F1-2AD5-472B-A261-77E8E815E679@vpnc.org> <F917A3E4-2F87-4670-8370-9DEA2E85D6B2@rfc1035.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/DQcNlDhevIbC0AzBbI5iXP3wvwg>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Question about usage of ip6.arpa and in-addr.arpa
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 00:07:21 -0000

On 12 Mar 2018, at 16:41, Jim Reid wrote:

>> On 12 Mar 2018, at 23:27, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote:
>>
>> For which other protocols did you want certificates with IP addresses 
>> as identifiers?
>
> I think these may be needed for SIP, particularly roving (nameless) 
> clients. And quite possibly for P2P applications.

How could you use ACME to validate the IP address of a roving client or 
a P2P application that has no fixed IP address?

Having said that:

On 12 Mar 2018, at 16:43, Paul Vixie wrote:

> we need to use TLS to secure both dns-over-https and some forms of 
> TCP/53 in
> which the server's address is known but not its name.

This seems like a reasonable use case.

>> If your list is longer than zero, are you willing to help Roland with 
>> a solution using DNS records for validation that has any chance of 
>> being usable?
>
> Yes, I’d be willing to work with Roland on at least finding and 
> documenting likely use cases. Are you? Whether we (or others) can then 
> come up with something that has any chance of being usable is another 
> matter.

Exactly. Given the difficulty of getting stable in-addr.arpa and 
ipv6.arpa records at all, being able to write a TXT record into them 
seems completely unstable. Thus, "temporarily put up a web server where 
you were going to put up the DNS (or other) server" seems the most 
likely to work reliably. If you have other ideas, that's great.

--Paul Hoffman