Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)
Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> Mon, 18 June 2018 15:02 UTC
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From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)
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On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 04:17:00PM -0400, Erik Nygren wrote: > We have many years of software that relies on emergent behaviors from the > current default. Well, I think more accurately we have years of software that relies on emergent behaviours of the prior default of certain implemnetations. > While pedantically it may be true that these should be treated as unordered > sets I don't think that's being pedantic. That's literally the definition of an RRset, and (as I guess has been shown by others in this thread) relying on an existing order behaviour to which one has become accustomed is going to be a problem even if people just switch out their software or change the configuration of their systems. This is a bug in the relying software, because the network _never_ made the promise that software was relying upon. > Software should have safe defaults that matches common expectations. I think this is true only if the common expectations are reasonable ones, and given what RRsets are the expectation in this case is not a reasonable one. What you're really saying is that, if there was ever one dominant system on the Internet (in this case, BIND), then the standards all need to be rewritten to conform not only to what that software implemented (a position with which I have some sympathy) but also to conform with the default settings of that software (a position I think needs rather more support than you've offered). > is that the order of results is NOT consistent. Sure. "Unordered sets." > In many environments, this > lack > of consistency is relied upon for systems to work properly. To me, this is like saying that, in many environments, the order of TCP packets (which very frequently do come in order) is relied upon for systems to work properly. This is true, but still broken. > This ambiguity in the current specifications What is the ambiguity? There is only an ambiguity if you think that people's expectation of something nobody ever promised them is part of the specification, and it isn't. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… 神明達哉
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] ?==?utf-8?q? BCP on rrset ordering fo… Petr Spacek
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Darcy Kevin (FCA)
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] DoH interaction, sortlist Re: BCP on … Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Peter van Dijk
- [DNSOP] DoH interaction, sortlist Re: BCP on rrse… bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Erik Nygren
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Erik Nygren
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Jared Mauch
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Peter van Dijk
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Jared Mauch
- [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Al… Erik Nygren