From libor.peltan@nic.cz Fri Oct 20 08:16:19 2023 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D97C14F73F for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 08:16:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cq-7D555sWps for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 08:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 604F5C1519AA for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 08:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.88.222] (ip-217-030-074-194.aim-net.cz [217.30.74.194]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC3A21C1955; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:15:52 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: mail.nic.cz; auth=pass smtp.auth=libor.peltan@nic.cz smtp.mailfrom=libor.peltan@nic.cz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------plAqwbAPBm00B05UF2XIEyBs" Message-ID: <4736d0ce-c7ae-42f3-8d5f-9fcba7ceaea0@nic.cz> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:15:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Ben Schwartz , "libor.peltan" , Tom Carpay , dnsop References: <168552183341.64553.1115658743324539974@ietfa.amsl.com> <9e878214-4def-ab48-c882-54e29ba764b5@nic.cz> Content-Language: en-US From: "libor.peltan" In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Server: mail X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.69 / 20.00]; BAYES_HAM(-5.00)[100.00%]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[33]; MANY_INVISIBLE_PARTS(0.30)[4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ZERO_FONT(0.10)[1]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[dmarc.ietf.org,gmail.com,ietf.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:48574, ipnet:217.30.64.0/20, country:CZ]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-0.800]; FUZZY_BLOCKED(0.00)[rspamd.com]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BC3A21C1955 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Action: no action Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 15:16:19 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------plAqwbAPBm00B05UF2XIEyBs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ben, DNSOP, thank you so much for your reading and comments. We considered both of your suggestions useful, and substantially updated the document to reflect them:  - for each EDNS option, abstract name, type and value are defined, and both presentation and JSON formats are derived from those, leading to mutual unification  - the presentation format is as similar as arguably possible to current dig/kdig text output The new version of the draft can be seen here: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-02.html We also already have a piece of "running code": kdig 3.3.2 implements both JSON and presentation format in accordance to the draft. We think this might be of interest of DNSOP. Thanks, Libor Dne 29. 08. 23 v 19:01 Ben Schwartz napsal(a): > I have reviewed this draft.  It seems potentially useful and like a > reasonable attempt to define a solution. > > I would like to see a unified rule connecting the text and JSON > representations, rather than explicitly defining new formats for each > key (and in some cases even changing the key names, e.g. NSID vs. > NSIDHEX).  For example, some options could be defined as having "list" > type output, and then we could define generically how list values are > represented in JSON and text. Similarly for numbers, strings, etc.  > Alternatively, the JSON format could be defined first, and the text > format could be defined via an algorithm that acts generically on the > JSON values. > > I think it's worth taking a close look at the existing commonly used > presentation formats before defining a new one.  For example, it might > be worthwhile to standardize a text representation that is closer to > the current "dig" output, for the sake of compatibility with existing > systems. > > --Ben Schwartz > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* DNSOP on behalf of libor.peltan > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2023 4:33 AM > *To:* dnsop > *Subject:* [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt > Hi dsnop, we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft > https: //www. ietf. org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01. html > We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, > and help interoperability of DNS > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart > This Message Is From an External Sender > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd > > Hi dsnop, > > we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.html > > > We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, > and help interoperability of DNS tools. Therefore, we think it'd make > sense if this document once becomes a dnsop-homed RFC. > > We'd appreciate your feedback and comments. > > Update from -00: added Guidelines for Future EDNS(0) Options (thanks > to Pieter Lexis); nitpicks. > > Thank you! > > Libor and Tom > > > > -------- Přeposlaná zpráva -------- > Předmět: New Version Notification for > draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt > Datum: Wed, 31 May 2023 01:30:33 -0700 > Od: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Komu: Libor Peltan > , Tom Carpay > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Libor Peltan and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format > Revision: 01 > Title: EDNS Presentation and JSON Format > Document date: 2023-05-31 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 20 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format/ > > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format > > Diff: > https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01 > > > Abstract: > This document describes textual and JSON representation format of > EDNS option. It also modifies the escaping rules of JSON > representation of DNS messages, previously defined in RFC8427. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------plAqwbAPBm00B05UF2XIEyBs Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Ben, DNSOP,


thank you so much for your reading and comments. We considered both of your suggestions useful, and substantially updated the document to reflect them:

 - for each EDNS option, abstract name, type and value are defined, and both presentation and JSON formats are derived from those, leading to mutual unification

 - the presentation format is as similar as arguably possible to current dig/kdig text output


The new version of the draft can be seen here: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-02.html


We also already have a piece of "running code": kdig 3.3.2 implements both JSON and presentation format in accordance to the draft.


We think this might be of interest of DNSOP.


Thanks,


Libor


Dne 29. 08. 23 v 19:01 Ben Schwartz napsal(a):
I have reviewed this draft.  It seems potentially useful and like a reasonable attempt to define a solution.

I would like to see a unified rule connecting the text and JSON representations, rather than explicitly defining new formats for each key (and in some cases even changing the key names, e.g. NSID vs. NSIDHEX).  For example, some options could be defined as having "list" type output, and then we could define generically how list values are represented in JSON and text.  Similarly for numbers, strings, etc.  Alternatively, the JSON format could be defined first, and the text format could be defined via an algorithm that acts generically on the JSON values.

I think it's worth taking a close look at the existing commonly used presentation formats before defining a new one.  For example, it might be worthwhile to standardize a text representation that is closer to the current "dig" output, for the sake of compatibility with existing systems.

--Ben Schwartz
From: DNSOP <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of libor.peltan <libor.peltan=40nic.cz@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2023 4:33 AM
To: dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>
Subject: [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
 
Hi dsnop, we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft https: //www. ietf. org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01. html We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, and help interoperability of DNS
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an External Sender
 
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd

Hi dsnop,

we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.html

We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, and help interoperability of DNS tools. Therefore, we think it'd make sense if this document once becomes a dnsop-homed RFC.

We'd appreciate your feedback and comments.

Update from -00: added Guidelines for Future EDNS(0) Options (thanks to Pieter Lexis); nitpicks.

Thank you!

Libor and Tom



-------- Přeposlaná zpráva --------
Předmět: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
Datum: Wed, 31 May 2023 01:30:33 -0700
Od: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Komu: Libor Peltan <libor.peltan@nic.cz>, Tom Carpay <tomcarpay@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Libor Peltan and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format
Revision: 01
Title: EDNS Presentation and JSON Format
Document date: 2023-05-31
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 20
URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format/
Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format
Diff: https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01

Abstract:
This document describes textual and JSON representation format of
EDNS option. It also modifies the escaping rules of JSON
representation of DNS messages, previously defined in RFC8427.



The IETF Secretariat



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