Re: [DNSOP] SRV and HTTP

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Thu, 12 July 2018 00:48 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108C2130E97; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.861
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.861 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L5=2.851] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jS1a9811JnNQ; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (homie-sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE3B5130DE3; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BCE03000271F; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; s= cryptonector.com; bh=XUvykv0i+MVCLEuiTnSgoj3pEdc=; b=aNxOtNF46AC b9z/WAA977x+krL+m+XxaE5gYb0QW6dNSEXgotPxZcYydOohemLaPKWjaQUYZh+v hTyF2tCe4LJj22ygmT6SJiLmI1bvz9UQ+EgaSt9Vpg85wde7WDML5b+29/wWy50W gwUpIarzhfS8mUQo1FmFgD746Soek8SA=
Received: from localhost (cpe-70-123-158-140.austin.res.rr.com [70.123.158.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 475E63000271E; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:48:36 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>, dnsop@ietf.org, DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, driu@ietf.org, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20180712004835.GB9723@localhost>
References: <3DF5A66C-CCBF-4116-A1FC-35CF8E05808B@hopcount.ca> <e1675184-f0bc-670d-3db1-b99a9daf1657@nostrum.com> <CAJhMdTOZtOpF_aK-ZzP0DfkDMcAtTKFLdSpKkrSPvP1cOgnOjQ@mail.gmail.com> <e658445a-242b-5f94-f1fc-0bc4c850319d@nostrum.com> <CAJhMdTOPjhbOK=NQijnYZ3kCY_+f-87n7wwwuR38ifHUG5msqA@mail.gmail.com> <F6C1AF50-EB1B-4E09-9A72-229AD4AC7E57@mnot.net> <82099DED-CCB6-4CDC-BFE6-97B1AB3EB0A4@isc.org> <7A9000F5-0772-49FC-BDBB-862C8141BA54@mnot.net> <20180711212427.GA9723@localhost> <0D94DD5C-944F-46EC-BFC0-9D84B5CE4C2E@isc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <0D94DD5C-944F-46EC-BFC0-9D84B5CE4C2E@isc.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/R87Cn5WebNddxPbUrZaDZOdATzE>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] SRV and HTTP
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 00:48:42 -0000

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 08:51:43AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote:
> >>> 1) is addressed by defining a new type(s) rather than using prefixes.
> > 
> > While that is correct, and truly, it is trivial to implement, it is not
> > trivial to deploy: too many DNS hosting providers would have to update
> > UIs.
> 
> Garbage.  There really isn’t.  People keep saying something can’t be done
> because there are too many X.  X get replaced.  X get updated.  As for DNS
> hosting providers that support a given type, we create a site and report
> what software by version and date and what DNS hosting providers support
> the type native or unknown formats.

I didn't mean to say not to go this way.  On the contrary, we should.
Just that this is an issue.

> We also don’t have to achieve 100%.  People can move to DNS hosters that
> do support the type or host their own DNS.  Every DNS hoster that provides
> slave/secondary services already supports they type as UNKNOWN has been out
> there so long.

Ah yeah, that's true -- not a great UI, but it works.

> >>> 2) is addressed by getting recursive servers to fill in missing additional data before returning.  Named has code in review for this for SRV as proof of concept.
> > 
> > That would be very nice indeed.  Unbound will need that too.
> > 
> >>> 3) is addressed by adding some signalling between the client and recursive server to indicate if the additional section is complete or not.
> > 
> > Well, OK, but as with (2) that requires recursive resolver critical
> > mass.  Not necessarily a big deal, though it will take enough time that
> > many apps will need to support falling back to doing multiple queries
> > one by one.
> 
> They can do the queries in parallel, that 2 RTTs.

Yes, that's a big deal.