Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers

"zuopeng@cnnic.cn" <zuopeng@cnnic.cn> Thu, 14 February 2019 08:58 UTC

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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 16:58:38 +0800
From: "zuopeng@cnnic.cn" <zuopeng@cnnic.cn>
To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Cc: dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>, "Paul Wouters" <paul@nohats.ca>
References: <2019021215560470371417@cnnic.cn>, <alpine.LRH.2.21.1902120846480.18026@bofh.nohats.ca>, <201902131403257357123@cnnic.cn>, <20190213134408.ri5iy42q7u7h37ui@sources.org>, <201902141436144299614@cnnic.cn>, <20190214083311.2d6ncijynujoq6vc@nic.fr>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers
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sorry, because of my english level, i misused the word "protect".
i know the difference between channel security and object security.
but in my proposal, the premise is the recursive server should completely trust an Authenticated server.
 i think this is simialr in DNSSEC, because if an DNSSEC_enabled authotative server(no matter it is Alice or Bob) is evil and modifies DNS records, 
it will succeed because it has private key and can fake anything.



zuopeng@cnnic.cn
 
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer
Date: 2019-02-14 16:33
To: zuopeng@cnnic.cn
CC: dnsop; Paul Wouters
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers
On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 02:36:14PM +0800,
zuopeng@cnnic.cn <zuopeng@cnnic.cn>; wrote 
a message of 86 lines which said:
 
> i think both DNSSEC and DoH(or DoT) can protect DNS data,
 
"Protect" is like "security", a word so vague,  which includes so many
different (and sometimes contradictory) services that it is not very
useful. Writing "both DNSSEC and DoH(or DoT) can protect DNS data"
seems to imply that you did not think enough about the difference
between channel security and object security. This is really the
weakest point in your argumentation. (Yes, djb always make the same
mistake but he is a famous cryptographer so people forget and forgive
about his mistakes.)
 
> the fundmental point it to establish the trust chain and transit
> trust.
 
No. The entire point of DNSSEC is that you do not need to trust the
many servers that are between the validator and the origin.
 
> Regarding the case"secondary name servers mnaged by a different
> organisation", the servers can publish several TLSAs to distingush
> them.
 
I'm afraid you did not understand. Let me explain with concrete
examples. Suppose organisation Alice subcontracts a secondary name
server to organisation Bob (a very common use case).
 
1) What is Bob is evil and modify DNS records?
2) What is Bob is sloppy in security and its servers are cracked and
the attacker modify DNS records?
 
DNSSEC protects against both. DoT and DoH does not protect against
these issues.
 
> This idea is just a sketch model
 
The problem is that there are many sketch models floating around and
few serious proposals (and even less implemented and analyzed
proposals).
 
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