Re: [DNSOP] future-proofing (Re: Working Group Last Call for: Message Digest for DNS Zones)

Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org> Wed, 15 January 2020 08:14 UTC

Return-Path: <shane@time-travellers.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F80D1200FD for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 00:14:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Quarantine-ID: <fbv4CSkcLoCg>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Improper folded header field made up entirely of whitespace (char 20 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...T_ADDRESS@@ for details.\n \n Content previ[...]
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fbv4CSkcLoCg for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 00:14:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from saturn.zonnestelsel.tk (tunnel317214-pt.tunnel.tserv11.ams1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f14:77a::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15B1B1200C1 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 00:14:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from earth.zonnestelsel.tk ([2001:470:78c8:2::9]) by saturn.zonnestelsel.tk with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <shane@time-travellers.org>) id 1irdos-0001lv-AS for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:14:32 +0000
To: dnsop@ietf.org
References: <CADyWQ+G1w9_vcU3oO9MsKcP4hTLPXKFb+xY7LJGExbAfjzsDMw@mail.gmail.com> <D9E20677-B76F-4028-A283-6FA5DEEC22AE@verisign.com> <b3132d4a-8b91-27ff-83af-0204a47ec2c3@nthpermutation.com> <28189634.PH2fhW1m7e@linux-9daj> <57C19AE6-CE64-42F4-BFF1-7FD5C442CD4A@verisign.com> <4c9cee8f-c05f-1cb4-6a2d-4e61371bf045@nthpermutation.com> <C34B2364-13D8-461A-B15C-090C1C2F6200@verisign.com>
From: Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org>
Message-ID: <94fc8dac-0735-67af-f413-004e6f84c349@time-travellers.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:14:29 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <C34B2364-13D8-461A-B15C-090C1C2F6200@verisign.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Score-Int: -28
X-Spam-Bar: --
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/WAH_4XdFPVSvBwBJfF2Ygfa4HDc>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] future-proofing (Re: Working Group Last Call for: Message Digest for DNS Zones)
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:14:42 -0000

Duane,

On 13/01/2020 19.26, Wessels, Duane wrote:
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 3:55 PM, Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com> wrote:
> 
>> There's also the case that future ZONEMD schemes may need a different format for the digest field.   E.g. one approach to dealing with incremental changes is to have a NSEC like ZONEMD record which covers hashes only across a range of names.
> 
> We think that the currently documented RR format will solve most use cases - since the digest field is variable length, it already provides a lot of flexibility for future uses, by defining additional Digest Types.  Anything which cannot be solved with this format seems like it would be a sufficiently different protocol that it would deserve a new RRtype and document.

Honestly thinking about it more, I'm not even sure we should consider 
supporting an incremental version of zone digests in ZONEMD at all. 
There's no harm in introducing a new type with its own syntax and 
semantics if we tackle that problem in the future.

Some agility is needed to add new hashing algorithms, but beyond that I 
think maybe we should consider ZONEMD perfect in every way and not ever 
needing to be revised. 😉

Cheers,

--
Shane