Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)

Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> Fri, 15 June 2018 18:59 UTC

Return-Path: <jared@puck.nether.net>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A07912F18C for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.201
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VekTocyWYcE for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [IPv6:2001:418:3f4::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C677E12785F for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:f5e8:84c:9df6:764a] (unknown [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:f5e8:84c:9df6:764a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puck.nether.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 75CCD5409B9; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 14:59:50 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
From: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
In-Reply-To: <D55CB427-B6FA-4DCE-ABD2-C257F7A166B8@powerdns.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 14:59:47 -0400
Cc: dnsop@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <B9453491-89E7-46AF-A8B3-4DA8C6479641@puck.nether.net>
References: <CAKC-DJimMOtNCSE95kRs6Dy3dC_mxB=8O2WVA7badp8GK2ci-Q@mail.gmail.com> <20180615171231.GF1126@mx4.yitter.info> <D55CB427-B6FA-4DCE-ABD2-C257F7A166B8@powerdns.com>
To: Peter van Dijk <peter.van.dijk@powerdns.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/XCGyA7ZTdwIo7ZGSzsfH_GzN2CE>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 18:59:56 -0000


> On Jun 15, 2018, at 2:01 PM, Peter van Dijk <peter.van.dijk@powerdns.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Andrew,
> 
> On 15 Jun 2018, at 19:12, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> 
>> I believe that RRsets are unordered sets by definition.  So I supect
>> that if people are relying on the order in which they come off the
>> wire, they're making a mistake.
> 
> This. One hundred million times, this.

Yes, so because they’re unordered, they could also be ordered, and that should be seen as a version of unordered vs strictly ordered.  Just because the last 10m times I asked it came in the same order doesn’t mean that for 10m+1 it will be or should be.

I’m reminded of some large content providers telling me how they routed their ICMP bits differently than their non-ICMP because they had dedicated hosts to just respond to the ICMP requests of www.example.com folks used as a measurement point to see if their connectivity was working :-)

- Jared