Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-07

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Fri, 23 March 2018 12:09 UTC

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From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:08:59 +0000
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To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Cc: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] draft-ietf-dnsop-kskroll-sentinel-07
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isn't it a #define string? or passed in via environment from configure?

-G

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>; wrote:
>
>> On 23 Mar 2018, at 10:08 pm, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>; wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>; wrote:
>>> Geoff you are wrong. Titles should tell you what you are about
>>> to read especially technical documents. There are WAY TOO MANY
>>> RFC TO READ EVERYONE ON THEM.
>>
>> ... you lack ambition :-P
>>
>>>
>>> If I had a TA for andrews.wattle.id.au the current title would
>>> indicate that I could test resolvers to see if there is a TA
>>> installed for it.
>>>
>>> The current draft *is not* generic.  It is root TA specific.
>>> That needs to be reflected in the title.
>>>
>>> As for the label it can be used for more than rolling KSKs.
>>> It can be used to see what resolvers are supporting new TA
>>> *when you are not rolling keys*.  The current name reflects
>>> *one* use, not all uses.
>>
>> True, it does reflect one use case, not all -- however, we have
>> already changed the name multiple times and implementers are
>> (understandably) becoming annoyed, and supporting N different labels
>> for the tester is also annoying [0].
>
> As an implementer I say TOUGH!  The job of the working group is to
> put out good specifications not to take short cuts just because
> something has been implemented based on a draft.  This is the expected
> cost of implementing on a draft.  I’ve re-written plenty of code to
> follow draft changes.
>
> I’ve got code to implement this.  Some corner cases are currently
> undefined. Changing the label name will cause me to have to re-write
> parts of what I have already written.  I know this but I’m still
> calling for the changes.  Not only will the specific labels change
> but potentially configuration arguments and with that documentation.
>
>> How about a compromise - we update the draft name, but keep the label
>> the same - the only people who likely care about the label are
>> implementers and testers - once someone sees the name they will read
>> the doc and quickly discover how it can be used.
>>
>> W
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>> On 23 Mar 2018, at 8:21 pm, Geoff Huston <gih@apnic.net>; wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2018, at 12:55 am, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>; wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This title of this document DOES NOT match reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A Sentinel for Detecting Trusted Keys in DNSSEC” should be
>>>>> replaced by “A Root Key Trust Anchor Sentinel for DNSSEC”.
>>>>>
>>>>> kskroll-sentinel-<what>-<id> really needs something other
>>>>> than “kskroll” as the first field.  “root-key-sentinal-<what>-<id>”
>>>>> really more clearly matches what it does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other changes that follow from these two changes”
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I personally think this is getting into bike shedding at this point.
>>>>
>>>> The title of the document is an adequate description of the content
>>>> and folk who want to know more should read the document, not guess
>>>> from the title!
>>>>
>>>> The label is a piece of syntactic convenience and is entirely
>>>> arbitrary. We could start an almost infinite discussion thread
>>>> over which label is better, but in the end its just a label.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>>   Geoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Andrews, ISC
>>> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
>>> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka@isc.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DNSOP mailing list
>>> DNSOP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
>> idea in the first place.
>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
>> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
>> of pants.
>>   ---maf
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka@isc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> DNSOP mailing list
> DNSOP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop