Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
"Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen" <yngve@opera.com> Thu, 12 June 2008 13:25 UTC
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Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:26:16 +0200
To: Niall O'Reilly <Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie>, IETF DNSOP WG <dnsop@ietf.org>
From: Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen <yngve@opera.com>
Organization: Opera Software
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References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org> <20080609142926.GC83012@commandprompt.com> <484D4191.104@mozilla.org> <20080609154002.GA93967@commandprompt.com> <484D5206.3000806@mozilla.org> <20080609214215.GF10260@commandprompt.com> <1B8CFAA1-E30A-4461-8B4E-BFF6E3A3A39C@nominum.com> <20080610080209.GA1365@nic.fr> <484E5318.7040502@mozilla.org> <sd8wxdz2it.fsf@wes.hardakers.net> <484FB672.1080703@mozilla.org> <B9478927-1EBC-4363-914E-24839604481A@nominum.com> <485107C0.3010106@mozilla.org> <37E2260C-9BC3-402D-8155-C8151F91E5B5@ucd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
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On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:54:32 +0200, Niall O'Reilly <Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie> wrote: > > On 12 Jun 2008, at 12:25, Gervase Markham wrote: > >> The second question is one of resources and client complexity. I am >> meeting resistance to the idea of having the existing list regularly >> dynamically downloaded, which would be the simplest method of >> providing >> more frequent updates than the six-to-eight week Firefox security >> releases. An assemble-and-cache-the-data-from-DNS scheme would be an >> order of magnitude more complex. > > I'm not sure why you would need to assemble anything. > Couldn't you seize the data you need, on demand, from > the DNS (and cache at will). DNS, or full DNS, is not always available. There are at least two scenarios where this is the case: - Behind (very) closed firewalls, where all access go through a HTTP-only proxy. No DNS for external addresses is available. For that matter, when going through a proxy you have no way of knowing if the DNS available to you know anything about the address space you are accessing through the proxy. From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jun 12 06:25:55 2008 Return-Path: <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org> X-Original-To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsop-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50713A6939; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A843A6939 for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ib8e6KG44K3y for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.opera.com (mail.opera.com [213.236.208.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28CD3A6915 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from killashandra.oslo.opera.com (pat-tdc.opera.com [213.236.208.22]) by mail.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id m5CDQFJ9030205; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:26:15 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:26:16 +0200 To: "Niall O'Reilly" <Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie>, "IETF DNSOP WG" <dnsop@ietf.org> From: "Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen" <yngve@opera.com> Organization: Opera Software MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org> <20080609142926.GC83012@commandprompt.com> <484D4191.104@mozilla.org> <20080609154002.GA93967@commandprompt.com> <484D5206.3000806@mozilla.org> <20080609214215.GF10260@commandprompt.com> <1B8CFAA1-E30A-4461-8B4E-BFF6E3A3A39C@nominum.com> <20080610080209.GA1365@nic.fr> <484E5318.7040502@mozilla.org> <sd8wxdz2it.fsf@wes.hardakers.net> <484FB672.1080703@mozilla.org> <B9478927-1EBC-4363-914E-24839604481A@nominum.com> <485107C0.3010106@mozilla.org> <37E2260C-9BC3-402D-8155-C8151F91E5B5@ucd.ie> Message-ID: <op.ucm0x2q8vqd7e2@killashandra.oslo.opera.com> In-Reply-To: <37E2260C-9BC3-402D-8155-C8151F91E5B5@ucd.ie> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.27 (Win32) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: yngve@opera.com List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/dnsop> List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:54:32 +0200, Niall O'Reilly <Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie> wrote: > > On 12 Jun 2008, at 12:25, Gervase Markham wrote: > >> The second question is one of resources and client complexity. I am >> meeting resistance to the idea of having the existing list regularly >> dynamically downloaded, which would be the simplest method of >> providing >> more frequent updates than the six-to-eight week Firefox security >> releases. An assemble-and-cache-the-data-from-DNS scheme would be an >> order of magnitude more complex. > > I'm not sure why you would need to assemble anything. > Couldn't you seize the data you need, on demand, from > the DNS (and cache at will). DNS, or full DNS, is not always available. There are at least two scenarios where this is the case: - Behind (very) closed firewalls, where all access go through a HTTP-only proxy. No DNS for external addresses is available. For that matter, when going through a proxy you have no way of knowing if the DNS available to you know anything about the address space you are accessing through the proxy. - - On a number of systems, in particular phone devices, the application does not even have access to DNS to do a name lookup, it must specify the hostname, and try to connect. Additionally, a DNS-only solution would mean implementing a DNS client inside the application, since AFAICT the platform socket APIs usually do not provide the necessary functionality needed to access non-IPaddress data. While I am not opposed to the data being available in DNS, there must be a simple way to collect and provide it to clients efficiently and for any use case, while reducing privacy issues (which a batch of data for a given TLD will solve neatly), and with respect to HTTP clients, HTTP is the only method we can rely on, and it will also be available to many specialized applications that use HTTP, perhaps through some library. -- Sincerely, Yngve N. Pettersen ******************************************************************** Senior Developer Email: yngve@opera.com Opera Software ASA http://www.opera.com/ Phone: +47 24 16 42 60 Fax: +47 24 16 40 01 ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop On a number of systems, in particular phone devices, the application does not even have access to DNS to do a name lookup, it must specify the hostname, and try to connect. Additionally, a DNS-only solution would mean implementing a DNS client inside the application, since AFAICT the platform socket APIs usually do not provide the necessary functionality needed to access non-IPaddress data. While I am not opposed to the data being available in DNS, there must be a simple way to collect and provide it to clients efficiently and for any use case, while reducing privacy issues (which a batch of data for a given TLD will solve neatly), and with respect to HTTP clients, HTTP is the only method we can rely on, and it will also be available to many specialized applications that use HTTP, perhaps through some library. -- Sincerely, Yngve N. Pettersen ******************************************************************** Senior Developer Email: yngve@opera.com Opera Software ASA http://www.opera.com/ Phone: +47 24 16 42 60 Fax: +47 24 16 40 01 ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
- [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Elmar K. Bins
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Peter Koch
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Kim Davies
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Phil Regnauld
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Adrien de Croy
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jelte Jansen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… bmanning
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List SM
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Niall O'Reilly
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson