Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04
Doug Barton <dougb@dougbarton.us> Wed, 24 November 2010 02:15 UTC
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:16:09 -0800
From: Doug Barton <dougb@dougbarton.us>
Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/
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To: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
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Cc: IETF DNSOP WG <dnsop@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04
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On 11/23/2010 17:35, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 2010-11-23, at 20:26, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 11/23/2010 16:19, Joe Abley wrote: >>> >>> 1. there is no restriction to be inferred from RFC 1123 that TLD >>> labels be alphabetic; >> >> Unqualified "yes" to this. > > I presume you appreciate that not everybody shares your opinion on > this. Hence the word "incorrectly" in the diff I supplied. It's also probably worth pointing out that I have been diligently trying to avoid the even-more-painful rathole of attempting to forensically determine the true meaning and intent behind the words. That said I have fairly strong suspicions with pretty good foundations that I understand why it was written the way it was, and I _still_ don't agree that the document, as written, defines a protocol restriction. One could also travel down the more-painful-still rathole of things like 'confirmation bias' that motivate people to see "evidence" of what they have always believed to be true even when it isn't there, but I'm pretty sure we don't want to go there. >>> 2. it is better for deployed software to break than for the IETF >>> to involve itself in anything resembling policy. >> >> A qualified "yes" here. I'm saying that in _this_ situation, the >> IETF does not and should not have a policy role, and should limit >> its commentary to the technical. There is (rather obviously at this >> point) no _technical_ reason that TLD labels should be >> all-alphabetic. > > Well, beyond the expectation in deployed software this should be the > case. That's an operational consideration that I think is reasonable > to describe as technical. ... which is why I'm willing to compromise as far as including a "Here be dragons" in your draft. But you could reductio this argument all the way down to not doing IDN TLDs at all, and solve the whole problem. For that matter, >3 character TLDs were clearly a mistake. Do you want to tell Cary that his delegation has been revoked, or should I? The "deployed software will break" argument can be used as a reason not to do anything you choose to apply it to, especially in DNS. But whether it's worth it or not is a policy question. I'll say it one (hopefully) last time. There is no _technical_ reason why TLD strings cannot include digits, and the IETF should not say that there is. >> Furthermore I am saying that the benefits of keeping the TLD >> namespace open to all technically possible values outweigh the >> costs. [...] > > I thought you weren't interested in discussing policy in the IETF? > :-) Doug (... and I'd have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!) -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/
- [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Mans Nilsson
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 ]ke Nordin
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Richard Clayton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- [DNSOP] Writing rules for French (Was: draft-lima… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 James Mitchell
- Re: [DNSOP] Writing rules for French (Was: draft-… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Writing rules for French (Was: draft-… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] Writing rules for French (Was: draft-… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic (was: Re: draft-liman-… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] clue w.r.t. arabic Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 James Mitchell
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Alfred Hönes
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Richard Clayton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 James Mitchell
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Chris Wright
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Andreas Gustafsson
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Masataka Ohta
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] draft-liman-tld-names-04 Mark Andrews