[DNSOP] Re: [dd] [Ext] Re: Root DS/DELEG query
Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Thu, 24 July 2025 08:14 UTC
Return-Path: <marka@isc.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: dnsop@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FFB49FA53A; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 01:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isc.org header.b="l1MHKue3"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isc.org header.b="pV6KF0nZ"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eckwFczUqraY; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 01:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [149.20.2.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 966EC49FA531; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 01:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zimbra10.isc.org (zimbra10.isc.org [149.20.2.90]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC4044D1325; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 08:14:01 +0000 (UTC)
ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 mx.pao1.isc.org BC4044D1325
Authentication-Results: mx.pao1.isc.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=149.20.2.90
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=isc.org; s=ostpay; t=1753344841; cv=none; b=LvP3tlK2KXkkhEAOj3PYVIOwFeO3PrHUpr1d+Jl6y9vg95UTp0Mt0yIgrtEfDZNuJnLt0jV3OHi0SD1IT6wblSxyCBqI5SA7EK0gvnrzX2YdvBxmwppse+uFYaCfrSwoIH/lMOGu3oKtYPMfD1QHdRnuPmwS5yVOvQClPrEZRGY=
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=isc.org; s=ostpay; t=1753344841; c=relaxed/relaxed; bh=yNfa3H8FYbOCAdd7t3YZCm9HbKWOTwfXhuqMh8/IuRI=; h=DKIM-Signature:DKIM-Signature:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=b57Gp5g4y6B29blVkpPA+nYmf4ZrxOcU0aeyDRYfG2S8lyQ8Vh4j5hpgyZOIA4/AV+JBFeKChQQvbWpC34wUPr5IErWJ/UE1fQU0L2FWxbsrq02A68G7BuVNbjPCKjouKaRJ19vK+9a8LbpLkaA5c2lcvwAZwxUyFPIAXW8CRZs=
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.pao1.isc.org
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mx.pao1.isc.org BC4044D1325
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=isc.org; s=ostpay; t=1753344841; bh=WezNRng1WnXTf7T6lrYcTIl5IFNH/VVli/pOCnEZ5xI=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=l1MHKue37U/sRHwmsSLTARVo7Y9sKK0g9ciYfsbGW8mPHowF/Vtwm8wl3Tgo3vted k7pbKZiyspe2crppStodrd8SAOX60Pktuu2zqmBxfkgA/kJmqAf78RnQOtpPi0brPq FyH9aIdgjmvO5IEheGeOrtM3VFpQQOlS1/Wn5/0o=
Received: from zimbra10.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra10.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6EC52E601C6; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 08:14:01 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zimbra10.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra10.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7C752E601C7; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 08:14:01 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zimbra10.isc.org A7C752E601C7
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isc.org; s=05DFB016-56A2-11EB-AEC0-15368D323330; t=1753344841; bh=yNfa3H8FYbOCAdd7t3YZCm9HbKWOTwfXhuqMh8/IuRI=; h=Mime-Version:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=pV6KF0nZuhMVcVqXmolZWI0IKubOmcM/KMzoG4OXOYlCQvmEOEru02Axk3FW8I5MT gsr3UO8lUHVcFJpTSp0G+bq+Ly5XdDTxI1IWRtPmrW4iADujRgs8lpk31WQuUiUFbX J8OysCxtS+QItxFcknfRSXduHGY70w3ACa1xkrPk=
Received: from smtpclient.apple (nat64-a3.meeting.ietf.org [31.130.238.163]) by zimbra10.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9DBD02E601C6; Thu, 24 Jul 2025 08:14:00 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6.1.11\))
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
In-Reply-To: <2e3f3d3f-b341-41e3-bfd8-f10b53715139@isc.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2025 10:13:56 +0200
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <99B8C0B8-00D1-4502-B5F6-D4C6259F6E64@isc.org>
References: <caa2df39-2483-464f-9802-24d66555866f@isc.org> <1A6AE7F2-5B86-4495-B604-B33FBD6A4037@isc.org> <841DB038-EA32-45A7-9731-BE46192A203E@icann.org> <m1ueWys-0000NiC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <2e3f3d3f-b341-41e3-bfd8-f10b53715139@isc.org>
To: Petr Špaček <pspacek@isc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6.1.11)
Message-ID-Hash: SJWCCRLAVAIDPFUDYYCO3MRARQ457RWZ
X-Message-ID-Hash: SJWCCRLAVAIDPFUDYYCO3MRARQ457RWZ
X-MailFrom: marka@isc.org
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-dnsop.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Philip Homburg <pch-dd@u-1.phicoh.com>, dd <dd@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org>, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [DNSOP] Re: [dd] [Ext] Re: Root DS/DELEG query
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/cZLRgP6rtA6zOWmMY3pvBjwAWrk>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:dnsop-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:dnsop-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:dnsop-leave@ietf.org>
See B.8. in RFC 4035. This is a provable NODATA that servers for a zone return when they serve the zone in the QNAME and not the immediate parent. As the root zone does not have a parent zone this is the answer that needs to be validated and returned. > On 23 Jul 2025, at 14:28, Petr Špaček <pspacek@isc.org> wrote: > > On 23. 07. 25 12:45, Philip Homburg wrote: >>>> ./DS is NOERROR NODATA. This is RFC described behaviour >>> >>> Which part of which RFC? I, too, am not finding this, but you seem >>> sure it is in the RFCs. >> In my experience, if a DS query arrives at an authoritative and the name >> is in a zone served but not part of a delegation or below a delegation then >> DS will be treated like any other type. >> I'm not aware of any part of an RFC that requires the server to do anything >> different in this case. >> The funny thing is that because DS is a parent-side type, at a delegation >> it is also a completely normal in-zone lookup that can result in either >> an answer or a NODATA response. > > That's besides the point. My initial question was explicitly about: > > RFC 1034 5.3.3. Algorithm > RFC 4035 4.3. Determining Security Status of Data > > I.e. resolver and validator. > > At the moment 8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1, BIND 9.21.10 and Knot Resolver running DNS4EU give three different combinations of (RCODE, AD bit). > > -- > Petr Špaček > > -- > dd mailing list -- dd@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to dd-leave@ietf.org -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
- [DNSOP] Root DS/DELEG query Petr Špaček
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Root DS/DELEG query Mark Andrews
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Root DS/DELEG query Wessels, Duane
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Root DS/DELEG query Philip Homburg
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Root DS/DELEG query Petr Špaček
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Root DS/DELEG query Mark Andrews
- [DNSOP] Re: [Ext] [dd] Re: Root DS/DELEG query Paul Hoffman
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Re: [Ext] Re: Root DS/DELEG query Philip Homburg
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] Re: [Ext] Re: Root DS/DELEG query Petr Špaček
- [DNSOP] Re: [dd] [Ext] Re: Root DS/DELEG query Mark Andrews