Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)
Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org> Fri, 15 June 2018 17:24 UTC
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 20:23:58 +0300
From: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Also head's up on bind 9.12 bug (sorting rrsets by default)
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Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 11:45:19AM -0400, Erik Nygren wrote: >> A number of folks have been bitten by a bug in bind 9..12 where it silently >> changes the default sorting of rrsets to always be sorted (even if the >> authoritative response wasn't sorted). > > I believe that RRsets are unordered sets by definition. So I supect > that if people are relying on the order in which they come off the > wire, they're making a mistake. that's what i've always said. especially after adding round-robin and getting all the complaints about it. famously one complaint came from TGV, who had a terminal server product that used TXT RRsets to describe possible "hosts" that could be reached through their product. for their internal corporate network, they had encoded carroll's _Jabberwocky_, one verse per internal server. the bug report that came to me as the BIND4 maintainer was, "you're scrambling jabberwocky" or words to that effect. my response when closing the report was, "how can you tell?" > This is a common mistake with unordered data sets; it results in lots > of complaints about SQL data responses, too, for instance. (Of > course, in that case you always have the option of using an ORDER BY > clause, which we don't have in the DNS.) i think round-robin does more good than harm. another famous bug report from the BIND4 era when i first added round-robin was from UC Berkeley, who had two NS RRs for berkeley.edu, and the second one had never worked, and after i added round-robin, it started to receive queries for the first time ever. to that complaint i said, "fix your NS RRset." so while there's no way to please everybody, and while depending on the order (or in today's case, on the lack of order) of data whose ordering is not guaranteed is certainly an error, it's very implicit one, and we need sensible defaults rather than interminable whichness-of-what arguments. -- P Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… 神明達哉
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] ?==?utf-8?q? BCP on rrset ordering fo… Petr Spacek
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Darcy Kevin (FCA)
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] DoH interaction, sortlist Re: BCP on … Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Peter van Dijk
- [DNSOP] DoH interaction, sortlist Re: BCP on rrse… bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Erik Nygren
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Erik Nygren
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Jared Mauch
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Peter van Dijk
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin… Jared Mauch
- [DNSOP] BCP on rrset ordering for round-robin? Al… Erik Nygren