[DNSOP] Ambiguous standards suck (was Re: draft-jabley-dnsop-ordered-answers)

Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org> Fri, 06 November 2015 03:07 UTC

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:07:22 +0900
From: Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org>
To: "Joe Abley" <jabley@hopcount.ca>
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Subject: [DNSOP] Ambiguous standards suck (was Re: draft-jabley-dnsop-ordered-answers)
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Joe,

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 12:42:45 -0500
"Joe Abley" <jabley@hopcount.ca> wrote:

> On 5 Nov 2015, at 10:54, Niall O'Reilly wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 13:26:22 +0000,
> > Ray Bellis wrote:  
> >>
> >> IMHO, if a clarification is needed, it's that a client that depends 
> >> on
> >> the order of the RRsets in an answer MUST NOT do so.  
> >
> > Wouldn't it be a simpler clarification to say that a client MUST NOT
> > depend on the order of the RRsets in an answer?  
> 
> Sure, the solution could be any number of things.
> 
> But what I heard clearly in the room (and what I saw on the mailing 
> list) is that there are multiple interpretations of the base spec, and 
> that there is deployed code that breaks as a result. This to me suggests 
> a need for clarification, regardless of what the clarification says.

Yes, I agree completely.

Clarifying may result in a large installed base of software that does
not implement the rules properly. But the alternative is a large
installed base of software that does not inter-operate. Sometimes. In
various confusing ways. Except when it does.

> Given that perspective, I remain confused as to why there was a strong 
> hum against providing clarification. It does seem possible that people 
> were humming against the specific proposal in the document, and not the 
> need for clarification in general.

I was in the room, and mildly surprised that there was a strong hum
against clarification.
 
> As I mentioned before I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, here. I just 
> want to make sure I understand what question people thought they were 
> being asked.

Good point. Perhaps people thought they were being asked to approve a
specific set of recommendations and did not like that? If that is the
case, fine, but lets pick a DIFFERENT set of recommendations then.

If people were opposed to adopting ANY straightforward clarification,
let me ask them to please reconsider. I beg of you all. Think of the
children.

Cheers,

--
Shane