[DNSOP] the ??-- thing (was Re: I-D Action: draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel-04.txt)

Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> Thu, 01 February 2018 21:20 UTC

Return-Path: <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5DF12DA6E for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:20:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=Ro7MJjUj; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=DHiArGvb
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXEGc8lmt9Va for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:20:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C925912ECB4 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:20:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA6CBE072 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 21:20:17 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1517520017; bh=L4X1ftUqUInAJBpRjlEXKKlSFQjlzLYPbSCmmUHRhcM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Ro7MJjUjc1gmRZaIHIpBVjIKa17J2AFdpeXTj1EIPlaaOrCKcmUuyX82aGV7UXDln EYInCF7hg7puz4C5yhVoSRbv8CS0uMhgyTtPHbL3JS1upCB7MlvQnjhbl0CZbz2nxt CwA0+xlhu3fFxapJDLFvyPoF7jD8Q+fc6Rpe5R9c=
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca
Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6qsPFuMvYUku for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 21:20:15 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2018 16:20:14 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1517520015; bh=L4X1ftUqUInAJBpRjlEXKKlSFQjlzLYPbSCmmUHRhcM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=DHiArGvb346wYDnLPwZ0WKq6djiLpsUCXA9oAsYJMKXtDQLYTZibiFFO0XoOySClk ei/zdcGJ+KATUjglRF9m4FqZorSDkv2gTcjxqdVenrqXTlZNEaGd5ncKmoMHzakjk/ cPyfpIKO3FW0N6BEWd5Nfb724TwcPWUwonNIzam4=
From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
To: dnsop@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20180201212014.GD27125@mx4.yitter.info>
References: <151062636258.5917.14497839377888768972@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180128080134.24987d69@titan.int.futz.org> <CAHw9_iLDid5-3JJ5gffdsR_PMCAEwwxB3i7ORLiBVtKwmt0khQ@mail.gmail.com> <20180129233755.3697ee79@grisu.home.partim.org> <20180130152459.GE18485@mx4.yitter.info> <9787FD03-4E91-46DC-92E0-85513D6A9B40@hopcount.ca> <20180130185128.GI19193@mx4.yitter.info> <CAKr6gn0LSjtJL_zci1i=aUYq6bd7vDos_QfiEiS=W0kygXS_MQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHw9_iJObyd4KPL9BsnARDCf-qaS_eYCMuWnn0SV+10OeYzgoQ@mail.gmail.com> <344C35F8-30C0-4705-8B96-A8E07FDCC34C@vpnc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <344C35F8-30C0-4705-8B96-A8E07FDCC34C@vpnc.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/s_w-lvKuqN1fs-49mSgXb3kH6Ws>
Subject: [DNSOP] the ??-- thing (was Re: I-D Action: draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel-04.txt)
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2018 21:20:26 -0000

Hi,

Please note that this is not about the document that started this
thread.  It's a rathole, but in a different field.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 04:58:01PM -0800, Paul Hoffman wrote:
 
> Please, no. As the originator of the original
> <letter><letter><hyphen><hyphen> hack, I think this is the wrong thing to do
> for many reasons. The biggest one is, sadly, the fact that some software now
> has <letter><letter><hyphen><hyphen> as reserved even though it should not.

I am not convince that "it should not" is true, and having thought
about this a little more it seems to me that an IANA registry should
have been created in the first place for this sort of miserable
in-label hack.  If it had been, we could have done something useful
here.  And if we don't do so now, in short order we're going to be
into the multi-level underscore-label hell that underscore labels are.

RFC 5891 explicitly says that any IDNA-handling software can't accept
a string with two hyphens in the third and fourth character positions
(that is, in a crappy regex, can't take ^..\-\-.*) as a candidate
Unicode string to be a label (see 4.2.3.1).  This causes upset in
section 5.4 of the same document, which is I suspect how Paul's "sad"
software came to be.

It seems plain therefore that a registry of in-band in-label prefixes
ought to be created, so that instead of heuristics in IDNA2008 we
could tell people to use a real rule.

Before I go to the bother of writing this up, are there at least five
people who would review it, noting that it must update RFC 5891 to be
useful?

Thanks,

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@anvilwalrusden.com