Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01.txt
"Wessels, Duane" <dwessels@verisign.com> Thu, 25 January 2018 23:52 UTC
Return-Path: <dwessels@verisign.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2218712EB15 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:52:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.31
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verisign.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RwpYUUu5htAn for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:52:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail3.verisign.com (mail3.verisign.com [72.13.63.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EFF712EB26 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:51:31 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=verisign.com; l=3461; q=dns/txt; s=VRSN; t=1516924291; h=from:to:cc:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject; bh=XS8cmaeprfqdxki7VQXjhKerVnpD3tHqm1i/e/r5myQ=; b=ViEacsHWVJr7QvECwEQEBv7oN5cdvzvsjFFqfW6NzFlUAZ5uyKeoGR/A CV66WMC0aifVkJenbZjCKnRwHuO/wVqVvdifTvEoeY4ibyEjTg9hqFNIA BDxWAhGQKIt4EsY2w6CtV5NWMGrj4HQyJyJTyB86eqxAm7WwKqEBK/HJO siWmYmSPVb0tAZGQEMYortUfGycKdQJiQ/jhEeiyJirdhi1fbH5ZXtke4 5S4lFs4yLMg2gEjB46nnBVY/tuDdNyiN5VBMq9PW8o82Ln/WD4zDSXQVZ 5uCY3wPTn+uFnx3s1DMKswx32178F+g2k5UjT68OnuyuzTqgmp1RUckRT g==;
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,414,1511827200"; d="scan'208";a="3696299"
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23: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
X-IPAS-Result: A2EfAQC6bGpa//SZrQpdGQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQcBAQEBAYVDB55mEWuYXgqFOwKCbxUBAQEBAQEBAQIBAoEQgjgkAYJHAQEBAQIBOj8FCwIBCA0BCh4QMiUCBA4Fii23XIpaAQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBAQEhhFGDbYFnKYJPNoMvBIFZFoNIgjQFiliJVo9WBgKQBYd2I4oTh1SXLQIECwIZAYE8NYF0cBVnAYF/hFd4jRGBFwEBAQ
Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02 [10.173.152.206]) by brn1lxmailout01.verisign.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w0PNpTIJ031830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 25 Jan 2018 18:51:29 -0500
Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 18:51:31 -0500
From: "Wessels, Duane" <dwessels@verisign.com>
To: Evan Hunt <each@isc.org>
CC: dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>, Peter van Dijk <peter.van.dijk@powerdns.com>, "anthony.eden@dnsimple.com" <anthony.eden@dnsimple.com>
Thread-Topic: Re: [EXTERNAL] [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTljdsGxNlokCUvECAjuL6pJ/YWw==
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:51:30 +0000
Message-ID: <909D91AA-16FD-47C2-A4F6-6363AF2FBBA2@verisign.com>
References: <151573473976.18703.16142464801623244164@ietfa.amsl.com> <DA12F618-29A5-4939-B4CD-8BEAEDAFE53D@verisign.com> <20180125232701.GA99501@isc.org>
In-Reply-To: <20180125232701.GA99501@isc.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <ED3A5CB2F130564D992E12D52DF57123@verisign.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/uIQRLKQTFOeMQLC1MEfI6ntMNIc>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01.txt
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:52:07 -0000
> On Jan 25, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Evan Hunt <each@isc.org> wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 10:05:24PM +0000, Wessels, Duane wrote: >> Why does the draft mandate initial TTL behavior? The important aspect >> would seem to be how long the data can be kept in cache, not what the >> (initial) TTL value is. As I noted in the previous message, Unbound's >> cache-max-ttl works that way and I think it has some nice properties. > > I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making. When you first > cache something, its TTL represents the length of time that data can be > kept in the cache, and it counts down from there to zero. That's what > I meant by the initial TTL. As an example, consider an ANAME record with TTL 3600 and a corresponding AAAA record with TTL 86400. I'm suggesting its just as acceptable to return the AAAA record with TTL counting down from 86400, but after 3600 seconds it is ejected/marked stale/whatever from the ANAME-implementing authoritative server. Unbound does that with its cache-max-ttl setting. If you do it this way then the consumers of the data (including ANAME-unaware clients) get to cache it for the original TTL. > >> Also in this new text I'm not sure what to make of "intermediate and address >> records." If "and" is truly intentional in this phrase then I think >> intermediate should be better defined, or examples given. > > Suppose ANAME (TTL 3600) points to a CNAME (TTL 30) which points to a CNAME > (TTL 5) which points to an A (TTL 86400). The response would contain ANAME > with TTL 3600 and, because of the intermediate CNAME, A with TTL 5. > > Suggestions welcome for a clearer way to phrase this. I now notice that intermediate is sort of defined at the end of section 3. Perhaps that is sufficient. I guess we don't have a good collective term for CNAME/DNAME/ANAME yet. > >>> Address records with expired TTLs MUST NOT be used to answer >>> address queries until refreshed by sending a new query to the ANAME >>> <target>. >>> >>> [...] >>> >>> If resolution of the ANAME <target> yields no address records due to >>> some other failure, and the query was for a specific address type, >>> the response MUST include the ANAME record and set the RCODE to >>> SERVFAIL. >> >> If the authoritative server has address records, which then expire, and >> cannot be refreshed, I read this as saying the later response must be >> SERVFAIL. > > For A or AAAA queries, that is the intent. An explicit query for type ANAME > would still be answered. > >> That seems in contradiction with the ideas of draft-serve-stale which says >> "stale bread is better than no bread" and "Several major recursive resolver >> operations currently use stale data for answers in some way ... Their >> collective operational experience is that it provides significant benefit >> with minimal downside." > > This seems like a job for the resolver, not the auth server. In the long > term my hope is that resolvers will implement ANAME, chase the answers > themselves, and then decide whether to serve stale records or not. > However, I guess we can relax this requirement if the auth server is > configured for serve-stale. It seems to me that ANAME gives auth servers resolver-like properties, so why wouldn't that apply there as well? DW
- [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Richard Gibson
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Wessels, Duane
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Wessels, Duane
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Stefan Bühler
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Bjørn Mork
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Stefan Bühler
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-aname-01… Tony Finch