Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing CNAME at apex
Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Fri, 22 June 2018 20:08 UTC
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From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
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Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:08:04 +0100
Cc: muks@mukund.org, jabley@automagic.org, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>,
Ray Bellis <ray@bellis.me.uk>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing CNAME at apex
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The problem with SRV (and MX) is that you can’t tell what an empty additional section means. (By “you” I mean anything in the resolver chain: app, stub, recursor, etc.) If the AAAA records are missing, does that mean there aren’t any? Does it mean they were not cached? Does it mean the server chose not to provide them for some other reason? If you want to find out, you have to make a follow-up query to get a clear answer, so you have spent two round trips instead of one. And hopefully your recursive server omitted the AAAA because it has an ncache entry so you get a quick answer, but that’s unlikely if the auth server didn’t provide AAAA and the resolver didn’t eagerly go chasing (which they don’t) and you are an early adopter of SRV so no one else filled the ncache for you. This can (in theory) be fixed with DNSSEC, but the additional section processing rules have to be changed so that they require the nonexistence proof when records are missing, and of course stubs and apps have to be changed to understand the NSEC(3) records. Mail servers generally regard additional sections as too unreliable to be useful, and take the simpler slower approach of making all the queries explicitly. It works for them because they are not especially worried about latency. Because of all this I can sympathize with browser authors to some extent; on the other hand, if they had adopted SRV before it was too late, we might have done more to fix these problems in the last 22 years. (eg an EDNS option to disambiguate missing additional records, maybe.) Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] faux BNAME, was abandoning ANAME an... John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Jan Včelák
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Ebersman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ondřej Surý
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Matthew Pounsett
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Anthony Eden
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Erik Nygren
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Jared Mauch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Lanlan Pan
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... tjw ietf
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing CNAM... Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... 神明達哉
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Shumon Huque
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Lanlan Pan
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Michael Sheldon
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Paul Vixie
- [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Michael Sheldon
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Ondřej Surý
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Jared Mauch
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] Creating a query/record for A and AAAA Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tim Wicinski
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Matthijs Mekking
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Dan York
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Evan Hunt
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... JW
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] abandoning ANAME and standardizing ... Mukund Sivaraman