Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Favor: Weigh in on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns?

Joe Abley <> Mon, 26 November 2018 18:38 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB53F130FFC for <>; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:38:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vnJvZBCfK_wp for <>; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:38:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB60A130FF4 for <>; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:38:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: by with SMTP id d190so7968245ywd.12 for <>; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:38:01 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=KTchK52UPiL3xrX+1rqof9yBDXfSRfU4AP5bmxMKTrg=; b=JOw2g2uDhpinGVdW1/CkRM4MhndhkKj2IDkeLLcWROMjDEG1dUodVpO7P8Q0U4duif ztBTk1dSohvHSwDZnFLrJA8CrQZ1UK95dAisth/WOuTmGUDTO9uF/JLF+zckvWwluYrP mFnWLhYSpD3KXkkyuV8JPKtp+UL1vOcEYqyDY=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=KTchK52UPiL3xrX+1rqof9yBDXfSRfU4AP5bmxMKTrg=; b=tVZouejOB6mDppcBUT8EkRkVRgS6wqZzQvmIGvrA1uPYEbxO7uEpyFpt4sZjsCT0wu sFULNhZ2J0PCcfSOtpvL86ce71oa748b6cBNivW3wxIPq3YTEpmB8iCjjXHZshyvGPHO 9JS0fBukxu1VeZc/a3q5VfuNRkunBoVcjmRsjXgCufTcB/8DRgLSFKzd/MYaDO6Tzhmq JYGZ4/l6qtFazkvMtdxj6vs/+SgZ1rRpegDNdcKCduMU3nae0Uycd4uZZtWlfFFtxGND irvJ9OSXSOJTClyztpYtE/0a6ZsmZ+u0cXJdlcjK5ePD/poIhAAPvQFHdSVWZFUg1Xfx blwA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKFXqPvLCfOdQnXFefBTscXqw0PM1RBEwsIUDkQ727sTX08N6sE KpOyXKZVgkF+/+1/Ugm5jLUJ6A==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fhgHXdEWl8G9gGm7mLyjkkNIytrE5R0t5YnZtX6xVDIkTBB4vETsc1Ee9WhoaOTZCQn89LcQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a81:f88:: with SMTP id 130mr30367967ywp.332.1543257481074; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:38:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2607:f2c0:101:3:b57d:f87e:cba0:7789? ( [2607:f2c0:101:3:b57d:f87e:cba0:7789]) by with ESMTPSA id k187sm268605ywf.71.2018. (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:37:59 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.101.1\))
From: Joe Abley <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:37:56 -0500
Cc: Warren Kumari <>, dnsop <>, "" <>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <>
References: <> <>
To: Paul Hoffman <>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.101.1)
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Favor: Weigh in on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns?
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 18:38:11 -0000

On 26 Nov 2018, at 13:28, Paul Hoffman <> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 2018, at 8:17 AM, Warren Kumari <> wrote:
>> As you can guess from the name, VPNs-R-Us is sketchy
> If you trust a VPN operator, you trust the VPN operator. What the rest of your message is asking is "can I partially trust the VPN operator to do X but not Y, and have all that be explicit?".

I think you can trust a VPN provider to make iPlayer work when you're not in the UK, or to get a better menu of television on Netflix, or to obscure the fact that you like to visit webpages that might get you a letter from the MPAA, but it could well be a stretch to say that you trust them not to subvert the DNS when you visit Paypal. The average end-user doesn't know what DNS is, never mind DNSSEC.