Re: [DNSOP] ALT-TLD and (insecure) delgations.

Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Fri, 10 February 2017 02:04 UTC

Return-Path: <marka@isc.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21B8129667 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 18:04:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.881
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y2KiRJT_BYr9 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E6A4129662 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 9 Feb 2017 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 737F7349422; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64FDE160042; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468F516006C; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Q1rMpSv6-Itx; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (c27-253-115-14.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [27.253.115.14]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B813160042; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:28 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rock.dv.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79016636CA12; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:04:25 +1100 (EST)
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
References: <20170207205554.B6974633BE40@rock.dv.isc.org> <18F2EB0D-5BD0-4CC5-B02C-2E5EA0B8CC23@fugue.com> <20170207214846.B66EF633C6C5@rock.dv.isc.org> <FB835756-2C46-40A9-88ED-2F8ADF812BA6@fugue.com> <20170208052544.862956356F33@rock.dv.isc.org> <FFAFD844-824C-44EA-A4B1-1AD28B4FE95C@fugue.com> <20170208060208.8C8E1635864D@rock.dv.isc.org> <E0A42577-0984-4ADD-8658-91413CBE783D@fugue.com> <20170208194208.DB02C635DD72@rock.dv.isc.org> <CAH1iCipA5nvWJqjdGUwJeeT_eU8EH8VYJU2hX1hJoiTb617K8Q@mail.gmail.com> <20170209163123.56hdbzaluekmvbh7@nic.fr> <20170209195722.DC1AB636586C@rock.dv.isc.org> <0394528C-99CD-41D4-9AB6-844D1318264C@gmail.com> <20170209204506.BC40D6365CBE@rock.dv.isc.org> <12D7473B-3A22-4A8D-9C13-2AEEDEABB879@fugue.com> <20170209224851.2FB1B63666E6@rock.dv.isc.org> <CAPt1N1nLmdoZ_3Kb8Kfp9sTsN-GYqo1A9CF3j4zb7QCvO3SLew@mail.gmail.com> <20170209232830.0DE1B63669D6@rock.dv.isc.org> <CFB6BEB2-4110-406A-A917-FC6361061B1C@fugue.com> <20170210004801.EEFE9636B89C@rock.dv.isc.org> <653 A3403-DFC8-491A-B083-7873D1886A12@fugue.com> <20170210015725.BF777636C97F@rock.dv.isc.org>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:25 +1100." <20170210015725.BF777636C97F@rock.dv.isc.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:04:25 +1100
Message-Id: <20170210020425.79016636CA12@rock.dv.isc.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/yMM0T2AQ0jQOQsofd24rvWmLCJg>
Cc: "dnsop@ietf.org WG" <dnsop@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] ALT-TLD and (insecure) delgations.
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:04:33 -0000

In message <20170210015725.BF777636C97F@rock.dv.isc.org>, Mark Andrews writes:
> 
> In message <653A3403-DFC8-491A-B083-7873D1886A12@fugue.com>, Ted Lemon writes:
> >
> > On Feb 9, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:
> > > 1) there is too much brokeness out there that returns NXDOMAIN instead
> > > of  a NODATA for a ENT.
> >
> > So you're saying that a root nameserver is going to return an incorrect
> > result?  And what does this have to do with intelligent trees?
> 
> I'm developing software that will be run on private internets with
> various degrees of compentence from the adminitrators as well as
> the public Internet.  That private internet may have a ENT for ALT
> that returns NXDOMAIN.  The server has to work in that environment.
> 
> So NXDOMAIN doesn't stop the query.
> 
> Even with everything working properly QNAME minimisation DOES NOT
> STOP THE QUERIES.
> 
> RFC 4035 + RFC 7816 -> leaks (synthesis of negative answers is banned by RFC 4035)
> RFC 4035 + RFC 7816 + ANC supported by the code w/o validation -> leaks
> RFC 4035 + RFC 7816 + ANC supported by the code + validation -> no leaks

And to complete the table
RFC 4035 + ANC supported by the code + validation -> leaks (no queries for alt)

> Mark
> -- 
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> DNSOP mailing list
> DNSOP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@isc.org