Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
Brian Dickson <briand@ca.afilias.info> Mon, 09 June 2008 16:56 UTC
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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:57:00 -0400
From: Brian Dickson <briand@ca.afilias.info>
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To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org>
References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org> <484D1533.4060300@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <484D1883.4060002@mozilla.org> <666CCACE-71F0-485D-9C9F-0C3E0C965ADA@virtualized.org> <484D52EC.1090608@mozilla.org> <C5894EBB-D4AA-40AD-8A38-2F4CD8A07D66@virtualized.org> <484D5B88.3090902@mozilla.org>
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Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List
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Gervase Markham wrote: > We've had this basic problem in the domain of cookies for years. I don't > expect another solution to pop out of the woodwork now. But I'm open to > being surprised :-) > Surprise! If you want grouping, there is a simple-to-code, reliable, and authoritative way to do so. Zone cuts (in DNS). (Note well - a zone is not semantically identical to a domain, although they can at times seem that way. In particular, if a child domain is served by the same server(s) as the parent, there will not be a zone cut. This, I believe, will generally do a good job of permitting grouping automagically.) Where there is a delegation of authority, via a zone cut, that is *exactly* where you want to group. And in the absence of a zone cut, you do not want separation by grouping. That (among other things) is what distinguishes "foo.co.uk" from "myprivatesubdomain.foo.com". Perhaps examining other aspects of DNS responses may further inform the device needing to determine grouping. Things like presence/absence of glue (at particular places, e.g. root/TLD), commonality of NS instances between parent/child, etc. Whether this gets done by the end-user's client, or by some more-centralized box, is an implementation issue (but one that should be given lots of thought!!). ButFrom dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jun 9 09:56:52 2008 Return-Path: <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org> X-Original-To: dnsop-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsop-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED183A6C63; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C91E3A6C52 for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMSep4SC6PN7 for <dnsop@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFE13A6C46 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from briand-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.90]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1K5kg6-0007zf-H5; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:57:06 -0400 Message-ID: <484D60DC.1090400@ca.afilias.info> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:57:00 -0400 From: Brian Dickson <briand@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gervase Markham <gerv@mozilla.org> References: <484CFF47.1050106@mozilla.org> <484D1533.4060300@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <484D1883.4060002@mozilla.org> <666CCACE-71F0-485D-9C9F-0C3E0C965ADA@virtualized.org> <484D52EC.1090608@mozilla.org> <C5894EBB-D4AA-40AD-8A38-2F4CD8A07D66@virtualized.org> <484D5B88.3090902@mozilla.org> In-Reply-To: <484D5B88.3090902@mozilla.org> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: briand@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>, ietf-http-wg@w3.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/dnsop> List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Gervase Markham wrote: > We've had this basic problem in the domain of cookies for years. I don't > expect another solution to pop out of the woodwork now. But I'm open to > being surprised :-) > Surprise! If you want grouping, there is a simple-to-code, reliable, and authoritative way to do so. Zone cuts (in DNS). (Note well - a zone is not semantically identical to a domain, although they can at times seem that way. In particular, if a child domain is served by the same server(s) as the parent, there will not be a zone cut. This, I believe, will generally do a good job of permitting grouping automagically.) Where there is a delegation of authority, via a zone cut, that is *exactly* where you want to group. And in the absence of a zone cut, you do not want separation by grouping. That (among other things) is what distinguishes "foo.co.uk" from "myprivatesubdomain.foo.com". Perhaps examining other aspects of DNS responses may further inform the device needing to determine grouping. Things like presence/absence of glue (at particular places, e.g. root/TLD), commonality of NS instances between parent/child, etc. Whether this gets done by the end-user's client, or by some more-centralized box, is an implementation issue (but one that should be given lots of thought!!). But, it is better to trust information already published, which is required for proper operation of DNS, than to look for additional information that may become stale or inconsistent. Brian Dickson _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop , it is better to trust information already published, which is required for proper operation of DNS, than to look for additional information that may become stale or inconsistent. Brian Dickson _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
- [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Elmar K. Bins
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Peter Koch
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Kim Davies
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Phil Regnauld
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Adrien de Croy
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Mark Foster
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jelte Jansen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Henrik Nordstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jeroen Massar
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Jamie Lokier
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… bmanning
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Joe Baptista
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List SM
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Dean Anderson
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Antoin Verschuren
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List - Please move disc… Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Gervase Markham
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Niall O'Reilly
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Yngve Nysaeter Pettersen
- Re: [DNSOP] Public Suffix List Brian Dickson