Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Network Devices
"Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)" <robby.simpson@ge.com> Thu, 20 November 2014 15:58 UTC
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From: "Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)" <robby.simpson@ge.com>
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Network Devices
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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:57:58 +0000
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Cc: Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net>, Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@etri.re.kr>, "dnssd@ietf.org" <dnssd@ietf.org>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>, Sejun Lee <prosejun14@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Network Devices
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Hi Paul, If the actual DNS name is used, I would be concerned by (at least) the following: - Parsing — clearly there will be non-compliant DNS names out there, that these devices will have to parse and trash. Looking at your draft, how would they know? - Extensibility — in the future how could new information be included? New categories? - Size — as the target is IoT, bytes on the "wire" matter and this descriptive information is going to be quite large in the DNS format My preference would be for devices to support some resource that is discovered via DNS-SD — see my other email for details. - Robby From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>> Date: Monday, November 17, 2014 at 8:29 PM To: Charles Simpson <Robby.Simpson@GE.com<mailto:Robby.Simpson@GE.com>> Cc: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>, Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net<mailto:brian@innovationslab.net>>, Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@etri.re.kr<mailto:mkshin@etri.re.kr>>, "dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org>" <dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org>>, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr<mailto:pjs@etri.re.kr>>, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com<mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>>, Sejun Lee <prosejun14@gmail.com<mailto:prosejun14@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Network Devices Hi Robby, Yes, my intent is to to include semantics (e.g., device category, device vendor, and device model) in a standardized fashion into the DNS names of low-capacity IoT devices. I intend to place machine-interpretable semantics into the actual DNS names themselves so that machines can use the DNS name for the identification of other machines without additional service discovery through mDNS. The localization of devices is also possible with the DNS name because the DNS name can include the location of the device, as describe in Section 6 (Location-Aware DNS Name Configuration) in my draft: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jeong-homenet-device-name-autoconf/ Thanks for your good opinion. Paul =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Software / Department of Computer Engineering Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Mobile: +82-10-4758-1765 Fax: +82-31-290-5119 Email: pauljeong@skku.edu<mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu>, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> CPS Lab Website: http://cpslab.skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 6:15 AM, Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management) <robby.simpson@ge.com<mailto:robby.simpson@ge.com>> wrote: It seems to me that part of your intent is to include semantics (e.g., device category, device vendor, device model) in a standardized fashion into the DNS name. On the other hand, while we often apply semantics to DNS names currently for human readers, these semantics typically are not standardized for machines. For that, we have DNS-SD. As an example from the IoT space, we use both mDNS and DNS-SD for SEP 2.0 (IEEE 2030.5). While the DNS names often reflect aspects such as device manufacturer and category, these are not meant to be machine interpretable in SEP 2.0. Rather, we use DNS-SD to advertise various functionality that is machine interpretable. Perhaps I am misinterpreting, but is your intent to place machine-interpretable semantics into the actual DNS names themselves? Thanks, Robby Robby Simpson, PhD System Architect GE Digital Energy M: +1 404 219 1851 Robby.Simpson@GE.com<mailto:Robby.Simpson@GE.com> From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com><mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>>> Date: Saturday, November 15, 2014 at 1:22 AM To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com><mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>> Cc: Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net<mailto:brian@innovationslab.net><mailto:brian@innovationslab.net<mailto:brian@innovationslab.net>>>, Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@etri.re.kr<mailto:mkshin@etri.re.kr><mailto:mkshin@etri.re.kr<mailto:mkshin@etri.re.kr>>>, "dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org><mailto:dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org>>" <dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org><mailto:dnssd@ietf.org<mailto:dnssd@ietf.org>>>, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr<mailto:pjs@etri.re.kr><mailto:pjs@etri.re.kr<mailto:pjs@etri.re.kr>>>, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com<mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com><mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com<mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>>>, Sejun Lee <prosejun14@gmail.com<mailto:prosejun14@gmail.com><mailto:prosejun14@gmail.com<mailto:prosejun14@gmail.com>>> Subject: Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Network Devices Dave, Thanks for your clarification. In Page 32 in RFC 6762, there is the recommended course of action after probing and failing, but there is no text about a random ID selection. Anyway, we can perform a random ID selection for the uniqueness of a DNS name, but the readability for such a DNS name is not good for the users. My original intention for DNS name generation is to include device category (e.g., refrigerator), device vendor (e.g., Samsung), device model (e.g., RH269LP). This name itself delivers much information to users and mobile smart devices (e.g., smartphone or smart TV) to represent the device icon visually. I am not sure this is enough answer for your last question. If you have more comments, please let me know. Paul =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Software / Department of Computer Engineering Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Mobile: +82-10-4758-1765 Fax: +82-31-290-5119 Email: pauljeong@skku.edu<mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu><mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu<mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu>>, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com><mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>> CPS Lab Website: http://cpslab.skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com><mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>> wrote: Paul wrote: > For the regeneration and verification of a unique DNS name under DNS name conflict, > the solution in RFC 6762 recommends to use an incremental digit (such as 2, 3, 4, etc.) > by trial and error. In an IoT scenario where there will be many IoT devices of the same > type, such as light bulb in home or hotel here, this incremental numbering approach > will be costly and slow to let each IoT device have a unique DNS name, ... My reading is that RFC 6762 does not _require_ an incremental digit. You can put in a random ID or MAC-derived ID or something else highly unlikely to collide. As such, it should not be "costly and slow". Indeed RFC 6762 does not specify what you have to do. Would it be possible to recast your draft as "how to choose a unique ID and use RFC 6762" ? -Dave
- [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home Netwo… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Dave Thaler
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Alf Watt
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Daniel Park
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Tom Pusateri
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Alf Watt
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Stuart Cheshire
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Alf Watt
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Guangqing Deng
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
- Re: [dnssd] DNS Name Autoconfiguration for Home N… Ted Lemon