Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03

"Hewitt, Rory" <rhewitt@akamai.com> Thu, 08 February 2018 19:22 UTC

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From: "Hewitt, Rory" <rhewitt@akamai.com>
To: Justin Henck <henck@google.com>, "ek@google.com" <ek@google.com>
CC: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>, "doh@ietf.org" <doh@ietf.org>, "mbishop@evequefou.be" <mbishop@evequefou.be>
Thread-Topic: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:22:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03
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Additionally, using /.well-known/ would allow for URI Template discovery, if required - client retrieves URI Template from e.g. /.well-known/doh.template and then uses that to build DNS request URI.

 

See  <https://github.com/dohwg/draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https/issues/74> https://github.com/dohwg/draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https/issues/74 for @mnot's suggestion.

 

Thanks,

 

Rory

 

Rory Hewitt

Senior Solutions Architect

Global Services & Support

Akamai Technologies

Tel: (408) 650-0035

 

From: Justin Henck [mailto:henck@google.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 11:17 AM
To: ek@google.com
Cc: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>;; doh@ietf.org; mbishop@evequefou.be
Subject: Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03

 

That would work for the situation I specified, but I think that a .well-known pointer provides the additional benefit of serving more technical users with an advanced configuration. (It is also in-line with the intended use of .well-known as I understand RFC 5785.)

 

Specifically, if an implementer creates an advanced setting whereby you can configure a DOH server with both a domain and an IP (to eliminate the need for bootstrapping) then you have made the user's life easier. And, although a URI is not supposed to change, a .well-known/dns pointer requirement would ensure that capricious servers don't break manually-configured clients.




 


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Justin Henck 
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On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:59 PM Erik Kline <ek@google.com <mailto:ek@google.com> > wrote:

Sounds like you might want a (TXT) record at the zone cut level?

On 8 February 2018 at 10:55, Justin Henck <henck@google.com <mailto:henck@google.com> > wrote:
> I would like to see a way for clients to discover a DNS server hosted on a
> certain domain.  Perhaps a .well-known/dns path that contains a relative
> pointer and other metadata.  I'm imagining a use case whereby the user could
> choose to rely upon an organization that they find trustworthy which is
> offering DNS, without needing to do a significant amount of discovery (e.g.
> "maybe known.tld has a DNS server?").  You could of course also have an
> absolute pointer, but then you have to account for the situation whereby
> known.tld might delegate to unknown.tld.
>
> Justin Henck
> Google
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:21 PM Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com <mailto:bemasc@google.com> > wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be <mailto:mbishop@evequefou.be> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m inclined to think this is a positive change.  We’re trying to do
>>> something better than the current world of “trust the local DNS server
>>> because unauthenticated DHCP says so”, and promiscuous trust just because a
>>> server claims it support DOH via a .well-known endpoint isn’t really any
>>> better.
>>
>>
>> To be clear, the draft never proposed promiscuous trust, which would
>> indeed be highly problematic.  However, draft-03 does include additional
>> language clarifying this point.
>>
>>>
>>> The client should know the hostname(s) of the DOH server(s) it wants to
>>> use
>>
>>
>> In draft-03, "knowing the hostname" is not sufficient, because there is no
>> default path for DOH.  This is the change on which I am seeking input.
>>
>>>
>>> , and it should authenticate the DOH server against that hostname.
>>
>>
>> Yes, definitely.  (I believe the draft is clear on this point, but feel
>> free to suggest improvements.)
>>
>>>
>>>   If a server hosts content and also wants to also serve DOH, there are
>>> ways to present a hostname that covers both names (or present two
>>> certificates) on an HTTP connection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Doh [mailto:doh-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:doh-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of Ben Schwartz
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 10:05 AM
>>> To: doh@ietf.org <mailto:doh@ietf.org> 
>>> Subject: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The authors of draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https have been making good
>>> progress, and a draft-03 is now ready with several changes and
>>> clarifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One important difference is that draft-03 no longer proposes a
>>> ".well-known" entry.  In draft-02 and prior, clients could check for the
>>> presence of a DOH service at the default path, given only the domain name of
>>> a server.  In draft-03, there is no default path, so clients must be
>>> configured with the full URL of the DOH endpoint.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this change compatible with your use cases?  Would this alter the way
>>> users interact with your systems?  How do you think DOH client configuration
>>> should work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please respond with your thoughts,
>>>
>>> Ben Schwartz
>>
>>
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