IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Doh] [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients

Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net> Wed, 13 March 2019 12:48 UTC

Return-Path: <brian@innovationslab.net>
X-Original-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1563E130DE6 for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=innovationslab-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MK5JG27EcdnV for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2056124B0C for <doh@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id c189so958728qke.6 for <doh@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=innovationslab-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=CsUzPeORPYf7oE84ITb13DxM7WOqHJTmjyILi0PhHkk=; b=yLhPp4Bf1mlidBJjpkh7NL5d1Mpz5F/YhrW+WLN1ySxtocrPbWPHeNBHPhCVzJYGC1 V44gz2rIqrRbHpZxEHf2rOodb/WSAfAa4F4zb1pa1ftYUuvFy98o4D8OTMKkToQoIQOQ CUOHLWC4oWf+b32sWEjYNlzKjaYS1dpoXUB0Xdin3zM00P5s5ZzDeRg9/l8H9Z4KSfi6 b7JRMEMvqs/zb5ReEqhJgpQPSGTHwF/p8XlWjjiZ/KX0P98zB9+WlsTDtAeCAoNSqb+/ hMTclNW65CR8ZiE1DBf6bX9Ynikv01uaZ56KU8CHPWV6pmXekQJDG7Q13JX1BQlzre6v askg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=CsUzPeORPYf7oE84ITb13DxM7WOqHJTmjyILi0PhHkk=; b=Kuuy8Ty3wXcZU+k2McYgWFqOkCCmA/6gs0wFB2vmdcOkWPRzDm9+hDacICBz3Dk9HO M8UVvdo2tFMZa7M7gPnrN5dSSctJWOA8cNb8HHEJw5LyMnmKt4x1gf+eA0rDawEKcvPM gM5nfdVD7tUy9iPV5Ca4vic/IPAWU+CPcHIrz+XujZTGGvQzcYqFhC7fj2Q70DZ+AGYq ZWIArPQvmmFx3+U9K7KIFvry4/dWxwl/aZiwPhQRqTSvXWUCpN3VW1Q2FG0C5hZI3uAP 3M1OtQoqjSZyFnGdM7GzmcXbn6KfA3cVWWD2gEvAr7/8VwUXPr73x+GhqF+ankpOtdp9 Aejw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVWC9BH7U04lli4QkV2EgyYEzEEE95M+wb0gAy7gCsMEGFHRdmp CKXNa0xAr1ISvan4EXWHIB10rQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzDz/6a78gN07LPj/2xLSQo9UkEDdOkgROEjz9jMpd3hoVsM3FZXwiJVKh55P0IY0vZAhvCEA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1456:: with SMTP id i22mr32365573qkl.337.1552481303743; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from clemson.local (edge-nat-all.jhuapl.edu. [128.244.87.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d63sm9599518qka.22.2019.03.13.05.48.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: "dns-privacy@ietf.org" <dns-privacy@ietf.org>
Cc: dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>, "doh@ietf.org" <doh@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>
References: <1700920918.12557.1552229700654@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <5342244.Q90AZAhhXk@linux-9daj> <a8a31672-40ef-3886-472b-0eca7df15262@cs.tcd.ie> <2356055.DoC3vY7yXE@linux-9daj> <891d320e-f05e-f926-f74a-7c09c6ed553a@huitema.net> <0675B05A-54DE-4C07-A014-F8D4C272575E@cisco.com>
From: Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=brian@innovationslab.net; keydata= mQINBFm5KgYBEACs2icafejrG19L5DRNFq8Q2O+K+LRxjR4qAElZDnXFXNA2ipFWPeT0J2wa KJ+h9UdfhDm8DzULB553CYm+Q3XF1N56TglkIRMZYc7mYXZEr3x7e4fmX4kD4qMjBLG8cL26 rEe3Q0qaiMGY69/4o5coVMT0qmHjgCH1tkG+L2Y8MKr1gFxS18eO8MVoWe1yDKuyxFSElHGB 3mZn4gcqeCaemPGG3CiVNlp4KnijpNcSgvseXbkQEA4IXEsIvUL8MIwOTXg9Gh5cbtisZpuf +4B0LNMUSqWlqyKd9M3KCMj+dW4vsFytc00Z+GyQ+ArOR9GwTdAwJ5qqVODTvbjKqOR1zolJ 1JxLUtSiv7Lx5x2OrCexPYXkzlTkjG9Imtg2XNh55R/JKMC3KU1NQL3nS9tJXeoRWNgWSZrG MsrbeejbqLVb9LblXNpgLciJ96XHMvYAXX7p4LAwivzSRrVg46vErYIAV6EvDvwVENWW8JCU 0vX5iTGfkEwU4KxCa7WAmmD8yiNspHP1J0uk93Sta5K0PuTi7b+EZlCjdrqOEWLGPv6qXlIu FwLLcCaDs3XdVvwgNM+UFRxFH1aOVQQKCiCOCcNlwgYG1u4ZbD2T6hd/d2tOAKu/MNnQVF7d Cfi2BtSjzglLcY61e37zqTM04BgU+LniZ7V99yneM6DM2UzgkwARAQABtClCcmlhbiBIYWJl cm1hbiA8YnJpYW5AaW5ub3ZhdGlvbnNsYWIubmV0PokCQAQTAQoAKgIbAwUJB4YfgAULCQgH AwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeAQIXgAUCWbkqSAIZAQAKCRBo1jycU9GLYQixD/9UX0uiAvbJ+4dK z3Ne3kUdDK0Lk73RGfFgE/ezsc9I6ED82h+arC8pAoDnBWgzTxugZdbexek983bgMq02XFsG pJf7hudeKnB8UmtjTc0j1UUgi129FYyBmINS2Lz1gpEOygFfbeOGLJK5qZJwD3I3O6yN8SUZ uwahXXd1aEB+d1eGhNqxkjQ+L7vdfTlN662GWog3ROMwUbrg0+QAbn/Vlp2iIYO6VERUZ9Yr GfFJX9b9LKa6AHxzAaqFIix1h2wBiIacpIBGU/4+3+wL5zkCbGSRzoIHW8srllj7ehgwwfNx QevibuZWJ4XpHpIxrtsmBO7ERFk8pN7oiQ9M3b2Cg9OBD5vgxyMCHEKIblWyKz8GLtz5357L ORU1EBWB8BoJPBHz3u7bZE+jH9+w5PpI087Ae78KCDkTNj7o2wbkRoYLmLpMo8DOwAumyy5R 2DuRu0cn5Rw5pFjlJkyfM0Wf80Ml/SINrUORWeqSbsHSX8i+Y0Oyt5JNo9NFbgN0Gn/Qo364 I8cLgbvUAyFHwhnmbHB+QXFCGAy73NOQ+g2fCRPeSbihhYa34ugfmd4oa6W2w805ixzM7iGr P+wDB1dhA7eHKVmoo9Kxvm9VzU+2homYGEROd/H6n0BMvWtp1oFh/JvEgZN6dVLg3p+XX5Zj Ggy568bIY4P5kP7pAxh017kCDQRZuSoGARAAtCWxW1cRne/iGbFuibvB8d3upcbCB7oz4LWk LSE20Db2ymn04ici9V+wBSWX57me5jQdwMi/gzVVZcupbzWTg5Yhv7Qt7CKORJLEKo6nULbb 4aEpdOXD9s7wwx+foFjzjtDOH/JYoB+OEe2oW39VmK6EsIx7ClsLf6+cih5yApZHtmV+2M3J YSxD2kCUE619ITFLAkMf203ap5vJ6DDaaKnVoNhF9qV7jlJEceGqHTBG4KkBX/zNCehMIfhr ViY/B2IWAHeuZ99lnCPx2mehGGa4XLjQauUkY9KB7dOq/ODyt+7SL0dfWrOVf3BnU3C308b4 9YdId8KI4dJ30nfXn6ifTK9STZHZE+Mt1sIVmtEguqMXEk/axZmT14x194c7ZPmU/uCQTE3U y1NFs4Yof50WF1ze0CyN2ycmqx11mHjP5+L23TqcdIWmJG+EtdHUAFpu42kbB0fML3Oc/cEU SmWK3WpF5YPljLM2gyh3RXjuiBnaGoJaKTOj5zXQ2G2l3/ijbn9FbqmFup+R352dxUyakXEP xNe3HdyjfyUcy/RJNeZz/lgUIhkxWQjOOU1RIN41RtCKcF9tJjMwgQvI51QmPvf90/6ab3I/ vwEpjlRb4AbuWfPWe89J+Z3TG97V9sntlMcQ6MGiPLbyFpiXIf2150e6FxZdJtipVwY2d/kA EQEAAYkCJQQYAQoADwUCWbkqBgIbDAUJB4YfgAAKCRBo1jycU9GLYfy0EACYrxb4nWtOnIu0 N7rXXo/0ZjaBTyUhJ6hzy2D7rt3vv/qj2ui+N21ui/yMDS928za/XRfP25qN9A1puioHqN4l SAsxwCC3mT9GJXVXVgivg3MeciqBXoOdnk1hUkP1CTKL3qZ9pSuw8bPlNE7+b1xF7Oce37YH +QRVmBXbGwTxtDTCZ9Js0/IpiUtg9QCfmryB1r/fD0TFb8b9aCBuVeKocWSuX9UXRt7zRGM8 BJwOLvdLdGvV8us1imlBKFLai4L8CPgihuc/s7ZB0r3pgW697hXScWhGHF3OUWbPFVkNyivM xtDcq+9ZlUMrxFbwUEABi8NFwvzwn+YJQqlrPiF4xxsScYpnIlfWEuP6Vpp6Z/u5x+1MNyZb oxNWWaevMVeo3tdRV9F6/YFqucw4JQ9HqlCKQ62sW9+e5SSlxGNlV4j9cchG6a4fAZqxL+pS ks+KitK3ap/R4RUG+nbjLlhCwGJIti8lxvdYAoPqjtwEUmMJv4dIl0/2h1495cwBIi7XeRKZ Rx38TV3G3LCx0J8dFhkyTG5TxUZQFgHjznkIX7bzeSQX72MxT0b/tc38yM71WpAgAY+MlHCT FQRKqIQsH/4MFir+g/oV2uPNGwmg0QEOnv9zZ79JJ/nBmuXC2RwUVTtZgtiZXhaP0afvR0eg WPEzptIZZCSmtBOOYkfsAw==
Message-ID: <688b5495-e3ba-8566-97df-a44766c6cda7@innovationslab.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 08:48:21 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <0675B05A-54DE-4C07-A014-F8D4C272575E@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="otZVYRbBnnid2uWl1nGRcDgkDI1xwQm8g"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/doh/IBYO2u7MvsMy_6UAYYoNpQKc0lQ>
Subject: Re: [Doh] [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
X-BeenThere: doh@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Over HTTPS <doh.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/doh/>
List-Post: <mailto:doh@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:48:26 -0000

All,
     I am saying this with my dprive WG chair hat on...

     As Eliot points out, this conversation has deteriorated beyond
repair. I will now politely ask that these non-technical discussions
cease on the dprive mailing list. I would recommend that everyone
document their concerns with DoH and bring them to the side meeting
being proposed by Stephane.

Regards,
Brian

On 3/13/19 1:04 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> 
> This conversation has gone to the zoo.  What is or is not political doesn’t matter at this stage in the game, and neither is arguing over rights over bits.  If people want to do that I suggest doing so in the HRPC WG and with a draft in hand.  Flaming back and forth without an objective of actually modifying text or developing a work proposal is quite pointless.
> 
> What is important is to document the technical ramifications of the changes brought about by DoH.  To move things forward, can we simply go through the drafts in the side meeting, and indicate what administrators might do about any perceived negative effects?  Whether those effects seem negative to you only matters if there is a proposal for the IETF to take on new work to “correct” them.
> 
> Eliot
> 
>> On 13 Mar 2019, at 03:59, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/12/2019 2:11 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
>>>> I don't see why, based on your argument, your concerns
>>>> trump his.
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain?
>>> he's trying to achieve a political aim using technology. that is not the
>>> purpose for which the internet engineering task force, or the internet itself,
>>> was convened. it is not why our employers pay our travel costs. and it is not
>>> why the rest of the world trusts our outputs.
>>
>> Sorry, but no. I am vying for network transparency, and I believe that if filtering is to be enforced, it should be controlled by the user. You are claiming that safety mandates giving the network operator full control over name resolution. Both of these positions come from specific visions about how the network should work. Neither is more a political goal than the other.
>>
>> -- Christian Huitema
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Doh mailing list
>> Doh@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dns-privacy mailing list
> dns-privacy@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy
>

v2.8.7 | Report a Bug | By Email